2016 Am worlds courses

[Stardoggy]

I've talked to numerous people who have asked why there aren't more holes in the woods so it is relevant. It helps explain the course design.

Using different tee pads and different basket locations can significantly affect the scoring distribution on a hole. It still might be an open hole, but there is a difference between 80% of players getting a three versus a third getting a two...a third getting a three and a third getting a four.

You are a lower rated player who would prefer to challenge himself on the more challenging of two courses. To each his own.

Thanks so much for your constructive criticism. It's greatly appreciated!!!

Just out of curiosity, were there any other options even available? I know there's not a ton else that's really close. Maybe Rock River in Watertown?

These are all just curiosity questions. Is there a distance limit that's set on these events? I would assume there is...

 

[1978]

Capital Springs is a gorgeous course. It has two sets of tee pads and three basket locations on every hole so we have a lot of flexibility in how easy or difficult it plays. Most of the holes are wide open. However, there are several very nice wooded holes. There would have been more, but American Indian effigy mounds were discovered while the parks department was working on the course. The course has a lot of elevation changes and a well done island hole

Keep in mind that no division will play every course. The highest rated divisions like Advanced will probably play the more challenging courses like Bird's Ruins, Token Creek, Hiestand and/or Elver.

The lower rated will probably play Capital Springs, Elver, Hiestand and/or Token Creek. If I was in one of the lower rated divisions, I would have more fun at Cap Springs than Bird's Ruins.

Collectively, I think that we have a great group of courses for this event.

One mistake Kalamazoo made was making "longs" all the tips of the course. @ VRL Hole 8 was in the fairway of 10 and 18 in 17's fairway. The shorts should have been played here. Also, some of the shorts were much better holes at Oshtemo. I liked the courses but was disappointed that they didnt give the best layout choices for play and safety. AT VRL we should have played 8 and 17 short.

 

[Pbmercil]

So stoked for this event. Just gotta qualify and register when the time comes!

 

[bruce_brakel]

Mr. Glide:

With only 6 courses will there be fewer pools and fewer players than this year?

Looking forward to playing if my elbow wants to play.

 

[Mushin No Shin]

Collectively, I think that we have a great group of courses for this event.

Agreed Glad to see Birds Ruins will be in the mix. A great group of courses down there in the Capital, which will be an awesome host city.

 

[runningDoc]

"Just a feeeew minutes ago our sky was completely empty as a glass of glacial water..... now we have these mile wide cotton balls covering us"

 

[runningDoc]

.....

 

[Glide]

Mr. Glide:

With only 6 courses will there be fewer pools and fewer players than this year?

Looking forward to playing if my elbow wants to play.

Yes and yes. As of now, we are looking at a full field of 576 players. We are working with Chuck Kennedy to make sure that number makes sense.

We could have expanded the field by including courses that were 45 minutes away or adding temporary courses. However, I did not want to do that because I was concerned that it would spread our staff, volunteers and other resources too thin.

I would rather provide a great experience for 576 than a good experience for 72, 144 or 216 more.

 

[Glide]

Agreed Glad to see Birds Ruins will be in the mix. A great group of courses down there in the Capital, which will be an awesome host city.

Great point. Madison is a fun town to spend a week in during the summer.

 

[Glide]

Just out of curiosity, were there any other options even available? I know there's not a ton else that's really close. Maybe Rock River in Watertown?

These are all just curiosity questions. Is there a distance limit that's set on these events? I would assume there is...

The next closest courses that could have been used are probably Watertown, Janesville and Baraboo and all of those are about a 45 minute drive which is more than we were comfortable with. We might have made the exception if a course was really special (and that is not a knock on any of those courses).

Also, see my reply to Bruce's question. That also explains why we are using these five courses.

 

[Stardoggy]

The next closest courses that could have been used are probably Watertown, Janesville and Baraboo and all of those are about a 45 minute drive which is more than we were comfortable with. We might have made the exception if a course was really special (and that is not a knock on any of those courses).

Also, see my reply to Bruce's question. That also explains why we are using these five courses.

Yep, I get it. Good explanations, for sure. I would think the only one that even would have had a chance would have been Rock River, but it's not like that's particularly close, either.

 

[Glide]

Yep, I get it. Good explanations, for sure. I would think the only one that even would have had a chance would have been Rock River, but it's not like that's particularly close, either.

Yeah, it's about 45 minutes away from where the host hotel will be.

 

[Mushin No Shin]

The overall mix of courses is nice. Elver and Hiestand have a lot of woods with rolling terrain. Cap Springs is more open, but again, rolling terain and exposed to the wind. Bird's Ruins has some really tight wooded shots, but also some exposed prairie holes with the most brutal rough in the area. V-A at Token Creek is the "country club" course ... manicured parkland with tree-lined fairways

Best Capital city, course wise?

Des Moines
Columbus
St Paul
Austin
Nashville
Raleigh
Albany

Played Des Moines; it lacks variety, but exceeds in options. Pickard is a wonderfully huge monster

Hard to define what courses are St Paul? That's probably the largerist metro mecca capitol, course wise.

Madtown is up there nowa days

 

[runningDoc]

Best Capital city, course wise?

Des Moines
Columbus
St Paul
Austin
Nashville
Raleigh
Albany

Played Des Moines; it lacks variety, but exceeds in options. Pickard is a wonderfully huge monster

Hard to define what courses are St Paul? That's probably the largerist metro mecca capitol, course wise.

Madtown is up there nowa days

Albany, NY area surprisingly is strong with Disc Golf courses.

 

[icedpuck]

Add Courses

Why not add Watertown, Baraboo, Lustig and Whitewater (Older divisions). Why give Wisconsin disc golf a black eye?

 

[ru4por]

Why not add Watertown, Baraboo, Lustig and Whitewater (Older divisions). Why give Wisconsin disc golf a black eye?

How is Wisconsin being given "a black eye"?

 

[icedpuck]

Maybe I don't understand the math? 6 Rounds in 4 days. If you fill both 27s (Birds Ruins and Token Creek) that's 216 players, add 3 more courses that's another 216 players (total of 6 pools). Both Tolken Creek and Birds Ruins will be 1 round a day due to lack of time. Add the fairness of play (all players in same division playing the same course) it just doesn't jive.

With the reduction of field size and the registration criteria, the only players left out will be from the United States. Field reduction does not lend to "growing the sport".

I have been to the past 2 worlds and enjoyed myself at both, had to drive over 40 minutes to get to the next course on some days and made it.

Just seems that it doesn't jive on paper.

In my opinion us Wisconsinite disc golfers should care how this ends up.

Hope to see you there!

I'm entitled to my opinion, any derogatory comments are senseless.

 

[JC17393]

Maybe I don't understand the math? 6 Rounds in 4 days. If you fill both 27s (Birds Ruins and Token Creek) that's 216 players, add 3 more courses that's another 216 players (total of 6 pools). Both Tolken Creek and Birds Ruins will be 1 round a day due to lack of time. Add the fairness of play (all players in same division playing the same course) it just doesn't jive.

First off, there's no requirement that all players within a division play the same course, at least not at the same time or even on the same day. Look at Pro Worlds this week. The two pools of Open players were never on the same course in the same day. B-pool played 2 rounds on Tuesday and 1 round on Wednesday while A pool did the opposite.

Second, if you're limiting the 27 hole courses to a single round per day, you can use rolling tee times to push at least two 18-hole pools' worth (144 players) through on a day.

Third, from Glide's numbers, they intend to have 8 total pools of players (72 x 8 = 576). If you have 144 people playing each of the 27s on a given day, that's four pools in action and three courses open for the other 4 pools. If you schedule it right, you can get three rounds in on any or all of those courses in a given day...say an 8am tee time, a 12pm tee time, and a 4pm tee time. That should make it fairly easy to get four pools of players two total rounds on the remaining three courses.

 

[Glide]

First off, there's no requirement that all players within a division play the same course, at least not at the same time or even on the same day. Look at Pro Worlds this week. The two pools of Open players were never on the same course in the same day. B-pool played 2 rounds on Tuesday and 1 round on Wednesday while A pool did the opposite.

Second, if you're limiting the 27 hole courses to a single round per day, you can use rolling tee times to push at least two 18-hole pools' worth (144 players) through on a day.

Third, from Glide's numbers, they intend to have 8 total pools of players (72 x 8 = 576). If you have 144 people playing each of the 27s on a given day, that's four pools in action and three courses open for the other 4 pools. If you schedule it right, you can get three rounds in on any or all of those courses in a given day...say an 8am tee time, a 12pm tee time, and a 4pm tee time. That should make it fairly easy to get four pools of players two total rounds on the remaining three courses.

Correct...players within the same division will play the same courses the same number of times, but not necessarily on the same days.

Also correct is that our initial plan is to have 8 pools of players for a total of 576 players.

MA1 would play one round at Token Creek (27 holes) and another at Bird's Ruins in Marshall (27 holes) over the first two days of competition. A rolling start would allow for 144 players at each course.

The only part of your post that was incorrect is that that there would only need to be two rounds per day at the other three courses for the other four pools over the first two days of competition.

icedpuck...Thanks for your feedback. I've already stated this before in this thread. I would rather give 576 players a great time than 648 or 720 players a good time. That would be growing the sport. By the way, 576 players would still make it one of the largest Amateur World Championships ever. More courses (especially when they are approximately 45 minutes away) makes adequately staffing them very challenging and likely would dilute the staffing at the other courses.

 

[puttlikeablowfly]

Maybe I don't understand the math? 6 Rounds in 4 days. If you fill both 27s (Birds Ruins and Token Creek) that's 216 players, add 3 more courses that's another 216 players (total of 6 pools). Both Tolken Creek and Birds Ruins will be 1 round a day due to lack of time. Add the fairness of play (all players in same division playing the same course) it just doesn't jive.

The math is easiest for 18-hole courses, so stick with that assumption for now. To get eight pools of 72 players (total of 576 players), you need to accommodate 8 pools x 6 rounds = 48 pool-rounds played over those four days, for an average of 12 pool-rounds per day. 12 pool-rounds per day / 6 courses available per day = 2 pool-rounds per course per day. That's how you get to a capacity of 576. Or think about it this way ... three 18-hole courses gives a capacity of 288 players.

Now, if you use two 27 hole courses instead if three 18s, you still have the same number of holes. Can we get 144 players through a 27-hole course in one day? Since this event will be in early-to-mid July, there is 15-16 hours of daylight. No, we don't plan to tee off at 6 AM, but even with a very reasonable first tee time of 8:00 AM, you could get 144 players through in one day with tee times, or potentially even two rounds with shotgun starts. Even if you went shotgun starts at say, 8:00 and 1:30 or 2:00, you could leave every third hole open at the start to help pace of play.

The PDGA doesn't want to use courses three times in one day anymore. It can and has been done before, but doesn't leave much room for delays due to weather and other circumstances. We should be able to avoid that and still get 576 players.