2017 Vibram Open

[Scott Davis]

As a competitor in a tournament or a spectator,,especially in a Large event that attracts so many top 20 of the world's best players,I wanna see em challenged at every corner,every angle,every shot,,especially when it involves water,,,at least a retee and then move to ladies tee for drop zone on hole 8,, and surely a retee on hole 14 especially if you hit a tree and go in the water 50 ft off the box,,needs to be more penal for involving water besides just a Bogey,at one of the biggest best events of the year imo,,them 2 drop zones belong in a C Tier event

 

[JC17393]

Doesn't the drop zone and the "easy-ness" depend on the intent of the hole? Hole design isn't about extracting the highest scores possible from poor play. Hole design is about getting a good scoring spread among players of the target skill level so that the hole can be a difference-maker. And hole 8 at Maple Hill does exactly that.

By round, birdie/par/bogey/double bogey/triple+ bogey percentages:
35/26/33/4/2
44/21/32/2/1
53/18/22/6/1
44/21/32/3

Solid scoring spread for a simple par 3.

Hole 8 is a must birdie hole for Gold level players. If you get over the water and on the green, you should have a make-able putt for two. If you don't get over the water, you are likely going to bogey but you're still given an outside chance to save 3 from the drop zone with a 90ish foot throw-in. A line, mind, that is not straight and not particularly clean unless you take it out over the water to the left.

I think the drop zone is well placed on the hole. It is far enough that it isn't a given that players can save their three, but it is close enough that most players are going to give it a run anyway. Put the drop zone further away at one of the other tees (a minimum of 230-240 from the basket), and it pretty much guarantees there will be no three saves from anyone. No good, IMO.

 

[Scott Davis]

Why would you ever want to see the world's best players have an easy chance at a circle 3 throw in for par when they didn't even clear water ??? You don't deserve no idea par chance minus a miraculous shot if you don't even clear water on a water hole ,,smh

 

[bwgort]

Simon tried to run it and got caught behind some trees. Still had a very makeable putt -which he missed. I like drop zones in general in that they help speed up play-something which is greatly needed. In this case, however, I agree with Scott that the drop zone is in way too easy of a position for a tournament of this caliber.

Why should the score separation on one of the shorter holes on the course be more than 2 strokes? We found out with ledgestone and stroke and distance that NO ONE on tour likes extra punitive penalties on short holes.

 

[bwgort]

Why would you ever want to see the world's best players have an easy chance at a circle 3 throw in for par when they didn't even clear water ??? You don't deserve no idea par chance minus a miraculous shot if you don't even clear water on a water hole ,,smh

There's no easy chance for circle 3 at the Vibram open.

 

[JC17393]

Why would you ever want to see the world's best players have an easy chance at a circle 3 throw in for par when they didn't even clear water ??? You don't deserve no idea par chance minus a miraculous shot if you don't even clear water on a water hole ,,smh

These guys are good. They're not so good that a 90 footer around a pair of trees is an easy chance to save 3. Make-able, but by no means easy.

I'm not a masochist. I don't need to see the world's best players taking 7s and 9s and 11s on a quite reachable par 3 hole. Save that for the USDGC.

 

[Buchajs1]

Clearly you guys have never played Maple Hill. While the drop zone on 8 is not very puntitive, you lose nearly 2 strokes to the entire field if you go into the water. Often times on that hole landing in the water is an unforced error - just as it is on 14, as discs have a tendency to bottom out before clearing the water due to extremely unpredictable wind. The drop zone on 14 is certainly not easy especially with any kind of wind. Throwing a RHBH shot can often leave you with a circles end he putt into a headwind while a poor Forehand may leave you in the water.

 

[alfonseski]

The Drop zone on 14 for sure is not easy. I played ams, made the cut and played golds the last day. I was very surprised by that drop zone. I prefer to throw forehand upshots but that gave me pause where it would be fading into the water. On the backhand you have to put it out over the water to be in a good position. I ended up not really committing to a backhand and having a 30 footer back at the basket and the water. Which I made, but the point is the drop zone on 14 is a bit scary. 8 is an easier drop zone but you can screw that one up too...

 

[lyleoross]

These guys are good. They're not so good that a 90 footer around a pair of trees is an easy chance to save 3. Make-able, but by no means easy.

I'm not a masochist. I don't need to see the world's best players taking 7s and 9s and 11s on a quite reachable par 3 hole. Save that for the USDGC.

Wait, you're not a masochist, or your not a sadist? Just wanna keep your preferences clear.

 

[Steve West]

Here is how the holes performed.

All the holes had enough scoring spread, if they had allocated the different scores wisely, so it really came down to whether a hole handed out better scores to better players.

For tournaments like this, where almost every player was really good, it is more difficult to sort players than if there were a bunch of sub-950 players. The lack of really high percentage is not much concern, but 75% is not good. More informative is to rank the holes against each other to look for a few holes that could safely be tweaked.

Hole 15 did the worst at sorting players, and therefore contributed the least to giving out different total scores. Hole 6 did the best at sorting and contributed the most.

Note that although #15 had three or four different scores to hand out, the proportions didn't change much by rating. In fact, a flat, wide-open hole of the same length would be expected to have more scoring change as a function of ratings.

Compare to Hole 6 where there are obviously more low scores (2 & 3) as ratings go up, and fewer high scores (5 & 6) as rating go up. I think the flat line for 4s may act like a carrier wave in radio. Some of the best-performing holes do this. Infamous 444 at BRP, for example.

 

[ru4por]

I think there are just some that would like to see nearly impossible water carries. Just to watch top players throw a number of discs into the drink. It makes them feel better about themselves to see better players struggle. The nuances of the game, course design and scoring escape them. I don't want to see 7,8 or 9's on a hole either. I don't want to see anybody lose a disc.

 

[Steve West]

I think there are just some that would like to see nearly impossible water carries. Just to watch top players throw a number of discs into the drink. It makes them feel better about themselves to see better players struggle. The nuances of the game, course design and scoring escape them. I don't want to see 7,8 or 9's on a hole either. I don't want to see anybody lose a disc.

Even cooler would be to throw across a mine field and watch explosions!

 

[alfonseski]

We made a hole on our local course much harder recently and while brainstorming we decided having a ring of lava around the hole would be the most difficult possible scenario.

 

[Ender175]

We made a hole on our local course much harder recently and while brainstorming we decided having a ring of lava around the hole would be the most difficult possible scenario.

keeping the lava hot enough to remain liquid is the real challenge. At least if it cools into obsidian you'll have a cache on hand in case your course is ever attacked by white walkers.

 

[TheOtherBill]

I'm sure if Steve Dodge thought it would get more viewers he'd try it

 

[Steve West]

We made a hole on our local course much harder recently and while brainstorming we decided having a ring of lava around the hole would be the most difficult possible scenario.

You know someone will argue that if the disc is vaporized and becomes part of a plume it did not come to rest "on" the lava, so not OB.

 

[sjberry2017]

Even cooler would be to throw across a mine field and watch explosions!

Why not just have some people in the fairways who are clay pigeon shooters? That way the pros still lose their discs, somebody gets more practice at tracking targets, and it's a lot more entertaining for us

 

[DanJon]

Even cooler would be to throw across a mine field and watch explosions!

What would Par be on that hole?