2018 DGPT Tour Championship Oct 18-21

[teemkey]

Still waiting for DGPT to publish post produced, commented video of the FPO semifinals ...

 

[lenfantsuave]

Cons:

I don't understand why this tournament uses a format that essentially guarantees that several of the best players on Tour will play fewer than nine holes of truly meaningful disc golf. I understand the desire to do something different and ensure a competitive finish, but there are better ways. Even just having everyone play the first three rounds with the top 5 totals qualifying for a winner-takes-all Final Round would massively improve things.

Devil's advocate: I like the format. It rewards players who played well throughout the entire season and participated in more dgpt events. I would even go as far as to say that this format is more worthy of a "championship" title than many other events that are christened championship for the reason that the winner is more likely to have earned and qualified his way to the top over a much larger sample size during the season.

 

[Steve West]

Performance Tracks look a little weird under this format. Semifinals and Finals.

 

[KenanFlagler01]

Was there ever an explanation as to why Steve Dodge wasn't on site at the tournament? Or at least some tournament official? Where were they?

 

[Streets]

AJ Risley needs to go away...:doh:

 

[robdeforge]

Stakes without paint is perfectly acceptable for million dollar events in ball golf and should be fine in disc golf. In fact, it has been used for many years even at Worlds. The key is the stakes or flags need to be close enough to run a string between them when a call needs to be made.

I heard that spotters at Worlds this year had string on hand for this purpose

 

[Cgkdisc]

I heard that spotters at Worlds this year had string on hand for this purpose

Yes, they did. I saw at least one instance on camera where someone pulled out their string and stretched it between the stakes to make the call.

 

[JC17393]

Was there ever an explanation as to why Steve Dodge wasn't on site at the tournament? Or at least some tournament official? Where were they?

He was on site. He wasn't with the group. The guy has a billion responsibilities. Just because the players are on the course, that doesn't mean the TD's job is done and he's just sitting around with his feet up. Having played some Steve Dodge events and seen him in action, he never stops moving. Even with a volunteer staff of 50-100 people at Maple Hill, he's constantly doing something behind the scenes. Can't imagine he's much different at the Tour Championship.

Aside from the optics of not readily having an official right there, I'm curious what people think would have happened differently had there been someone there on the spot? The only thing I can think of is that Sexton would not have had to throw provisionals and therefore wouldn't have hit the putt for the provisional deuce and then we wouldn't have the "what if" at the end because he lost by one (and could have won if the deuce counted).

The final ruling wouldn't have been any different. He was out whether an official made the call on the spot or the TD made a ruling at a later time. Nothing would have changed. I think the criticism about the railroad tie being missing and no one addressing it prior to the tourney starting (replacing it, painting a line, running a string, making a verbal provision in the player meeting, etc) is perfectly valid. Criticism of how the ruling was addressed and made is unfounded. It went just like it would at any other tournament. There just happened to be cameras pointed at this one.

 

[broomerang]

^^ agree.

There was no "what if" moment. The provisional ceased to exist as a throw as soon as the ruling was made that he was indeed OB.

The only valid argument would have been if the railroad tie was moved Mid-Round and other groups played a different hole. There was only one group though so another non-issue.

 

[lyleoross]

He was on site. He wasn't with the group. The guy has a billion responsibilities. Just because the players are on the course, that doesn't mean the TD's job is done and he's just sitting around with his feet up. Having played some Steve Dodge events and seen him in action, he never stops moving. Even with a volunteer staff of 50-100 people at Maple Hill, he's constantly doing something behind the scenes. Can't imagine he's much different at the Tour Championship.

Aside from the optics of not readily having an official right there, I'm curious what people think would have happened differently had there been someone there on the spot? The only thing I can think of is that Sexton would not have had to throw provisionals and therefore wouldn't have hit the putt for the provisional deuce and then we wouldn't have the "what if" at the end because he lost by one (and could have won if the deuce counted).

The final ruling wouldn't have been any different. He was out whether an official made the call on the spot or the TD made a ruling at a later time. Nothing would have changed. I think the criticism about the railroad tie being missing and no one addressing it prior to the tourney starting (replacing it, painting a line, running a string, making a verbal provision in the player meeting, etc) is perfectly valid. Criticism of how the ruling was addressed and made is unfounded. It went just like it would at any other tournament. There just happened to be cameras pointed at this one.

Um, if someone had been there on the spot, Nate would have had someone to punch. Just Sayin'.

 

[DavidSauls]

Um, if someone had been there on the spot, Nate would have had someone to punch. Just Sayin'.

Always thinking about the spectator entertainment value, huh?

 

[lyleoross]

Always thinking about the spectator entertainment value, huh?

Oh dude, you're gonna make us rich. At the end of the tournament, online viewers get to vote on the event. Thumbs down, the winner punches the TD. Thumbs up, all is good.

 

[KenanFlagler01]

I'm not saying the ruling would've been any different, but Dodge not being there (with the one and only card) — I doubt we'd have half of the drama that's unfolded. Mostly I think it would've been more professional and respectful to the players, even if the call wouldn't have changed. I just don't get what else could've been more important than walking with the only card playing.

 

[JC17393]

I'm not saying the ruling would've been any different, but Dodge not being there (with the one and only card) — I doubt we'd have half of the drama that's unfolded. Mostly I think it would've been more professional and respectful to the players, even if the call wouldn't have changed. I just don't get what else could've been more important than walking with the only card playing.

The incident occurred on hole 15, right? Nearing the end of the round. Perhaps he was setting up the awards ceremony. Or monitoring the live broadcast (the behind the scenes operation, not what was on the screen). Or preparing for the possibility of a playoff since it was so close. Or any number of things that you don't think are important because you don't realize they exist or need to be attended to.

Every other tournament final round manages to go off without the TD following the lead card, and that's not considered "unprofessional". It shouldn't matter that they were the only group playing. If the TD has other responsibilities, he shouldn't need to be babysitting the players just in case a ruling is needed.

 

[KenanFlagler01]

The incident occurred on hole 15, right? Nearing the end of the round. Perhaps he was setting up the awards ceremony. Or monitoring the live broadcast (the behind the scenes operation, not what was on the screen). Or preparing for the possibility of a playoff since it was so close. Or any number of things that you don't think are important because you don't realize they exist or need to be attended to.

Every other tournament final round manages to go off without the TD following the lead card, and that's not considered "unprofessional". It shouldn't matter that they were the only group playing. If the TD has other responsibilities, he shouldn't need to be babysitting the players just in case a ruling is needed.

Well, in hindsight, the TD should've been there since they forgot to put that railroad tie in or at least clearly mark and explain OB.

 

[JC17393]

Well, in hindsight, the TD should've been there since they forgot to put that railroad tie in or at least clearly mark and explain OB.

And they had a dozen groups of players go through that same hole (just counting tournament groups not practice rounds), with that same missing railroad tie, and no one noticed it then. In hindsight, the first group through should have noticed it and brought it to the TD or course maintenance staff so it could be remedied. Woulda, coulda, shoulda. Doesn't make Steve's absence at that place at that exact moment in time unprofessional or disrespectful.

 

[DavidSauls]

I agree that this is much ado about nothing.

But as they're elevating the standards of disc golf events---as Steve and the DGPT are clearly doing---this does seem to be the ideal opportunity to have an official/marshal walking accompanying the group, in contact with the TD if necessary, just to make rulings. Hard to do at Worlds or USDGC with so many groups, but possible here. Future events might have an even thornier issue arise, and you'd certainly rather crown a champion after the final putt, than after an appeal or provisional ruling post-play.

 

[broomerang]

I agree that this is much ado about nothing.

But as they're elevating the standards of disc golf events---as Steve and the DGPT are clearly doing---this does seem to be the ideal opportunity to have an official/marshal walking accompanying the group, in contact with the TD if necessary, just to make rulings. Hard to do at Worlds or USDGC with so many groups, but possible here. Future events might have an even thornier issue arise, and you'd certainly rather crown a champion after the final putt, than after an appeal or provisional ruling post-play.

We're a long way off from having officials. Here's just a few issues:

Is the official able to overrule the players consensus or are they a 5th vote? Does that mean all PDGA sanctioned events must have a foursome? How do you protect players from a corrupt official? If there is an official and they can overrule a players consensus does that make it pointless for a player to even act as an official (seems to be a fairly lax implementation of the rules among some groups according to the internet)? Will they be paid or volunteers? Will they be required to take more than a simple test to become certified officials? etc etc

The current situation is fine. I like that the players called Steve and got the ruling before teeing off on the next hole. Clean slate at that point, you know exactly where you are and what you need to do (all players, not just Nate).

 

[DavidSauls]

We're a long way off from having officials. Here's just a few issues:

Is the official able to overrule the players consensus or are they a 5th vote? Does that mean all PDGA sanctioned events must have a foursome? How do you protect players from a corrupt official? If there is an official and they can overrule a players consensus does that make it pointless for a player to even act as an official (seems to be a fairly lax implementation of the rules among some groups according to the internet)? Will they be paid or volunteers? Will they be required to take more than a simple test to become certified officials? etc etc

The current situation is fine. I like that the players called Steve and got the ruling before teeing off on the next hole. Clean slate at that point, you know exactly where you are and what you need to do (all players, not just Nate).

I agree that we're a long way from having officials. However, this is a unique circumstance: if you only have one group on the course, you only need one official. No need for dozens of them, or issues with different groups having different quality officials.

The parameters of his responsibility can be set, however seems appropriate. He can be there just for an immediate appeal of any rules question. Or he can call violations. I once played in an NT/A-tier (I was in the A-tier Ams) with tee times, and there was a marshal on the starting hole. His main job was to start people, but he was also calling footfaults.

I also agree that the incident in question was minor, and shouldn't need an official. I'm thinking of something happening that isn't so easily sorted out. And the opportunity for the DGPT, with live coverage, to do something a bit above the standard for other events: have an instant resolution.

 

[broomerang]

And the opportunity for the DGPT, with live coverage, to do something a bit above the standard for other events: have an instant resolution.

Since the DGPT is separate from the PDGA I will agree with you there 100%