2019 Pros Switching Sponsors Official Thread

[DiscNinja33]

I haven't seen much discussion about the other reason players sell plastic: Fans want to support them. Unlike the major sports, the players aren't rich, but the average fan can put money in the pockets of their favorite players by buying their signature tour discs.



I don't know if I'm a representative of the average fan, but I never buy the discs the pros use just because they use them. If anything, I probably avoid those discs; for instance, I know I don't have the power to throw a Destroyer, so I don't bag one. But I have a few Sexton Firebirds that are mostly collectables I won't throw. I bought them just because I like Nate as a player and commentator and I feel like my dollars support him directly when I buy his discs.



This discussion has a lot of parallels for me to the music world. I play the drums and the world of drum company endorsements is just like disc golf. People become huge fans of the brands and the drummers, and emotions range from excitement to bitterness when major drummers change endorsers. I visit the drummer forums and then come here and it's like a strange kind of déjà vu.

100% agree. I don't buy many Paul stamped discs because he does just fine for money. I buy discs for the players I like that I know might need the cash to help them out a little more.

 

[vabeachroach]

I noticed on the Lat 64, Westside, and DD Facebook fan group that Kevin Jones was added as a member a couple weeks ago. Doesn't mean much, but still interesting.

 

[GoldeyeGolf]

My point is I don't like being advertised to under the guise of normal forum interaction. Advertising on the disc golf Reddit is frowned upon. DD bypassed that by hiring a long time poster of that subreddit. Since he has been active for so long, and often engages in non advertisement conversation s, the mods let the discs reviews, which are nothing more than an advertisement, slide.

I don't spend much time on Reddit (find it kind of annoying, really) and don't know all their rules or conventions, but if what you say is true, I see your point.

 

[Horsman]

100% agree. I don't buy many Paul stamped discs because he does just fine for money. I buy discs for the players I like that I know might need the cash to help them out a little more.

We are all a little different when it comes to buying plastic. I buy what I throw and what is collectible. I love Will Shoestring but Im never going to buy anything prodigy related. I like Anthon and love destroyers but Ill never buy an Anthon destroyer because the artwork is trash.

 

[turbosteve]

All of this conjecture can be addressed pretty simply by looking at this scenario from a business perspective...
Paul is an asset, plain and simple. Innova owns rights to him and his name until the deal officially expires (12/31/18 seems to be the agreed upon date...)

By 'officially' announcing the split now, they are effectively creating a huge demand for a (perceived) low supply. As a result, most, if not all distribution channels will sell out of McBeth related items in the coming weeks (while Innova still owns rights to Paul's marketability).

As supply and demand works, they'll then be able to produce another huge run of Paul stamped inventory before they officially lose the rights to co-branding with McBeth's name. I would expect this next batch to include every mold his name has ever been on, and to be run in excess.

They may even 'lose' a couple in the warehouse that can be released 'underground' to drive the collectible value up before re-distributing again. This effectively increases demand beyond what supply can handle and increases the perceived value of Innova discs.

All in all, I say this is well played by Innova and a great way to squeeze additional gross profit out of the golden goose before he's gone.

That would be good for McBeth as well because he would get more money in royalties.

 

[Zanguini]

Trilogy for Kevin would make since, the area he is from is pretty saturated with Trilogy baggers.

 

[BrotherDave]

So, the rumors that I have heard on the internet are as follows:

Ricky being courted by Innova
Uli to Discraft
KJones to Prodigy (maybe Discraft?)
Paul to Discraft
Hokom trying out MVP plastic (But with Legacy you can throw some mixed bag I think, so who knows)

Have I missed any?

I tried to bribe TimG into incentivizing me into staying on DGCR by threatening to go to r/discgolf but he called my bluff. So I'll officially stay at DGCR for my chit posting.

 

[DiscNinja33]

We are all a little different when it comes to buying plastic. I buy what I throw and what is collectible. I love Will Shoestring but Im never going to buy anything prodigy related. I like Anthon and love destroyers but Ill never buy an Anthon destroyer because the artwork is trash.

I can agree with that. I buy some stuff simply because I like the players even though I know I'll never throw it, but I also own some 4x Destroyers because I actually throw those.

 

[SpikeHyzer]

I'm sure by the time the Memorial comes around we'll see, at a minimum, a 5 disc series of McBeth designed mold's being produced under the Discraft banner.

I also think that Uli, Kevin Jones, and possibly Cat, end up under the Discraft umbrella as well.

 

[DiscFifty]

Since he has been active for so long, and often engages in non advertisement conversation s, the mods let the discs reviews, which are nothing more than an advertisement, slide.

ok...THAT is valid.

 

[elmexdela]

Can someone just go to Virginia and camp out at all the courses and just wait for Paul to show up and see what hes throwing.

probably going to pull a will s and still throw innova but hot stamp some other company...

 

[BuiltTooLong]

So, the rumors that I have heard on the internet are as follows:

Ricky being courted by Innova
Uli to Discraft
KJones to Prodigy (maybe Discraft?)
Paul to Discraft
Hokom trying out MVP plastic (But with Legacy you can throw some mixed bag I think, so who knows)

Have I missed any?

James Conrad going to DD to become their flagship MPO player

 

[aredoubles]

probably going to pull a will s and still throw innova but hot stamp some other company...

Or maybe he's secretly been throwing Discraft for years, with Innova stamps!!!

\s

 

[BuiltTooLong]

I saw a McBeth ITB where he had a Krait and talked about it. He mentioned using it at the Japan Open, which had a lot of elevation changes as well as the < 160g weight requirement. The next year, his ITB video did not mention the Krait.

IMHO the Krait is like the Viking: never very popular, but underrated.

I saw McBeth make an insane forehand shot with a Krait once during the 2015 Rumble. It was hole 18 and he threw a stretched out forehand about 285 feet down a very tight tunnel. I've noticed when he has similar shots now he uses that clear metal flake T3 with the yellow mcpro aviar stamp.

 

[ThrowBot]

James Conrad going to DD to become their flagship MPO player

I hope this is wild speculation and/or a straight up lie.

 

[riltim]

Profits tied up in stock.

Innova have a huge inventory of different products, lots coming in from China that they have to buy in bulk container loads months before they stand any chance of actually receiving cash for them. They are an expanding company. If they stopped production now and sold everything off you can bet they'd be sitting on a big pile of cash. As it is they will be investing that money in their own stockholding in order to supply their growing market.

At this time of year they'll have just received/be receiving lots of nice big payments from the summer sales in major retail outlets, so the bank balance will look good but they will be placing their 30% deposits with China factories and they'll be churning out huge amounts of discs now in readiness for the dealer rush in Jan/Feb. They'll expect 2019 to be bigger than 2018 so they will take the profits and churn them back into stock.

That's the big difference. With ultimate sales they can churn them out daily and ship them out daily and keep a comparative very low stockholding, actually seeing real life profits on them. They can react pretty quickly without having to tie their money up, potentially making them more cash rich despite a much smaller turnover. The only long term bulk buying they will have to do is allocating funds for plastics in that model (and this year I'd imagine some major mold costs and R and D in preparation for the big 2019) . in payment streams they'll also get paid up front by all clubs/teams/events buying stock of ultimate lids, they're not having to wait 90 days for the Walmart cheque to arrive or 60 days at a 2.5% discount

Imagine that over the last 10 years of incredible Ultimate growth. Each year they've been able to handle supply without really having to tie much more in the way of funds up to profit from it, they'd have been banking up some good cash reserves, I'd expect Innova to have reinvested most of their cash reserves in order to grow the inventory required to supply the growth.

I'd still prefer to be the owners of Innova at the moment with what is coming in this sport, they are market positioned and about to ride the wave. Discraft have a lot of spending to do now to get anywhere near their level in the Disc golf market.

Whatever happens it's exciting times for the sport.

Is any of this based on actual knowledge of Innova's business practices or is it rectally extracted?

 

[ThrowBot]

I saw the head of DGI (or the DG Group, after Will Schusterick took umbrage with the likeness in names) at both Worlds and USDGC. They're still out there.

Are they representing anyone? I recall seeing an impressive list of supposed clients...then nothing. I mean, I'm not knee deep in client/sponsor negotiations, but they just haven't had a big public presence that I've seen.

 

[BogeyNoMore]

I haven't seen this much activity since... hell, I dunno when. I just hope Paul doesn't do a LeBron type presser, where he says :

"We're gonna take our talents to...

That said, he's already begun to deliver on...

Not one, not two, not three...

 

[BuiltTooLong]

I hope this is wild speculation and/or a straight up lie.

Agreed. :hfive:

 

[bwgort]

I haven't seen this much activity since... hell, I dunno when. I just hope Paul doesn't do a LeBron type presser, where he says :



That said, he's already begun to deliver on...

What about "I'm just a kid from Akron"? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcD7RmNJbN8