2022 PDGA Champions Cup - 4th Pro Major

[toddnick]

I am psyched for both a 4th major and the format...it is like the college football season where everyone plays and the 4 best are seeded similarly in elimination matches...

And I love that they've chosen this course, a worthy starting place that is true disc golf...

In fact, I'm already planning on going to watch...I went to World's in 2018 and 2019....USDGC in 2018 and GMC in 2019....2020 schedule with World's in Utah just doesn't get me pumped but is close, USDGC is a one time for me, don't like the course, except holes 3, 5, 17 and 18....so, just the awesome GMC this year...next year World's at Emporia, ummmm, big no for me....

But I can totally get excited about woods golf in a major, the first time, new format, 5 days...yup, I'm in....

 

[Horsman]

But I can totally get excited about woods golf in a major

Agreed

 

[_MTL_]

Not sure if this model above or the actual event have considered what would happen in terms of seeding the top 4 if there are any ties among the top 4 after four rounds, or even trickier, a fair way to break 4th place ties to determine who makes it into the final 4?

Yes, this has clearly been discussed.

There still might be a tweak with what each seed means. For example, does the 1 seed get an advantage over the 4? Does the 2 get one over the 3? Should the 1 and 2's advantage be different?

Once we answer those questions, we will then develop a tie breaker format.

For example, if there is a tie for 2nd with two people but there is no difference between 2nd and 3rd, no reason to have a tie breaker. If there is an advantage to be in second, do we and how do we break that tie or do we just remove the advantage the two would have?

 

[_MTL_]

I know for sure the final match play rounds are going to be entertaining and I'm excited about it as a fan.

I don't like the format for a major. I'm a purest. Majors are about prestige plain and simple. Prestige is born from the perception of both the competitors and the fans. This format will most certainly lead to a considerable amount of fans/players holding the perception of, "he/she is a major champion, but...". That dilutes the prestige, and therefore, dilutes the major.

If you mean a golf purest, then I'm sure you were mad when in 1958 after 41 years of match play, the event changed to stroke play.

 

[Casey 1988]

My thought is Do we need a fourth Major? I mean top Stage Cycling has 3 Super Tours within the Grand Tour Classification, that since the 1990's when unofficially the 3 races got called the Super Tour events until the late 2000's early 2010's when the naming became official, The oldest from 1903 Tour De France, then the one from 1909 Giro de Italia and last and newest from about 1935, Vuelta a Espanola. Spain race is not the oldest as a Swiss one is older dating to 1919 but due to variety and length the Spanish one was added to the unofficial Super tour denotation the top 3 got from 1990's till official.

 

[Casey 1988]

I am psyched for both a 4th major and the format...it is like the college football season where everyone plays and the 4 best are seeded similarly in elimination matches...

And I love that they've chosen this course, a worthy starting place that is true disc golf...

In fact, I'm already planning on going to watch...I went to World's in 2018 and 2019....USDGC in 2018 and GMC in 2019....2020 schedule with World's in Utah just doesn't get me pumped but is close, USDGC is a one time for me, don't like the course, except holes 3, 5, 17 and 18....so, just the awesome GMC this year...next year World's at Emporia, ummmm, big no for me....

But I can totally get excited about woods golf in a major, the first time, new format, 5 days...yup, I'm in....

Emporium KS is good only if the winds of the Plains states of USA all down a strip are blowing at 20-30 mph otherwise the event is all rope/sign ob boring. Any wind past 35 mph will make watching courses online not fun either. Then crappy play on a Golf Course not done right where they could use another course in nearby KC for Glass Blown Open. Plus I assume that Dynamic Disc will try to buy some of its players into the Worlds as the local team for the 2021 Worlds event that did not qualify for event from the start but I think that will be a no go of PDGA sticks to how they have run the organization.

 

[Ryan P.]

Understandable. I played ledgestone once and the one time I played he verbally attacked me online and in person for asking him questions related to the tournament that were not posted. He has cussed me out for calling out his shady business practices in the past, nothing recent. I made him and others aware of his illegal online raffle practices on facebook and he did not like it. He abused his power and influence to get me kicked out of facebook groups where I was informing people and having good conversations of his and others illegal practices. He basically abused his power to silence me and as you can imagine I do not agree with that. I believe he can and will do the same thing to the PDGA. I also believe that him and others on the PDGA Board have too many conflicts of interest to be able to serve the PDGA and all of its members properly.

Thanks!

 

[JohtoVillage]

Great discussion on the 4th major, thanks for everyone's feedback!

Understandable. I played ledgestone once and the one time I played he verbally attacked me online and in person for asking him questions related to the tournament that were not posted. He has cussed me out for calling out his shady business practices in the past, nothing recent. I made him and others aware of his illegal online raffle practices on facebook and he did not like it. He abused his power and influence to get me kicked out of facebook groups where I was informing people and having good conversations of his and others illegal practices. He basically abused his power to silence me and as you can imagine I do not agree with that. I believe he can and will do the same thing to the PDGA. I also believe that him and others on the PDGA Board have too many conflicts of interest to be able to serve the PDGA and all of its members properly.

I can confirm that I do not know who this guy is (Horsman), but I can confirm that he is lying about almost everything he is saying. Please do not believe a word this guy says. I know some people just like to try to make a name for themselves by attacking other people, but claiming that I cussed him out and that I didn't have permission to do a raffle to support St Jude is embarrassingly laughable. I haven't used profane language since high school (I am 35) and I have had permission each year (in writing) to do raffles in person and online to support St Jude. Carry on!

 

[autocrosscrx]

it is like the college football season where everyone plays and the 4 best are seeded similarly in elimination matches...

This cracked me up since college football is pretty much universally thought to be the worst format in competitive sports.

 

[disco40]

Bold decision, I like it.

 

[Alobar]

Understandable. I played ledgestone once and the one time I played he verbally attacked me online and in person for asking him questions related to the tournament that were not posted. He has cussed me out for calling out his shady business practices in the past, nothing recent. I made him and others aware of his illegal online raffle practices on facebook and he did not like it. He abused his power and influence to get me kicked out of facebook groups where I was informing people and having good conversations of his and others illegal practices. He basically abused his power to silence me and as you can imagine I do not agree with that. I believe he can and will do the same thing to the PDGA. I also believe that him and others on the PDGA Board have too many conflicts of interest to be able to serve the PDGA and all of its members properly.

I can confirm that I do not know who this guy is (Horsman), but I can confirm that he is lying about almost everything he is saying. Please do not believe a word this guy says. I know some people just like to try to make a name for themselves by attacking other people, but claiming that I cussed him out and that I didn't have permission to do a raffle to support St Jude is embarrassingly laughable. I haven't used profane language since high school (I am 35) and I have had permission each year (in writing) to do raffles in person and online to support St Jude. Carry on!

opcorn:opcorn:opcorn:

.

 

[araytx]

I completely disagree that a different format is a plus for a major. None of the majors you quote is of a different format from each other. They have different style courses/courts but the formats are identical. Using match play event as a major will just diminish majors in disc golf and make any comparisons to other sports mute.

And that is why we all have our opinions. Great! you see it differently from me.

 

[HyooMac]

And its easiest just to think of the first four rounds as a qualifier to the finals.

Yup - that's exactly what they will be.

Still not sure what I think of this. On the one hand, it seems like it would be a bitch to show up, play four full rounds, and then go home.

On the other hand, this could be very exciting live coverage - will someone make it or not? Who's going to be playing in the ultimate head-to-head round for the championship?, etc.

There's plenty of time to tweak it/change it - but the proof will be in actually running it. Some drawn-out match battles on the last day might go a long way to making people forget about the four days of stroke play leading up to it.

 

[_MTL_]

For those who want a cleaner / easier (and edited) version of my long post:

https://discgolf.ultiworld.com/2021...e-champions-cup-will-deliver-compelling-golf/

 

[_MTL_]

Yup - that's exactly what they will be.

Still not sure what I think of this. On the one hand, it seems like it would be a bitch to show up, play four full rounds, and then go home.

5th through whatever 40% is still getting paid. It's not like only 4 people are getting cash. So the guy who misses the cut by 1 shot is still get a 4 digit pay check.

 

[ToddL]

Yup - that's exactly what they will be.

Still not sure what I think of this. On the one hand, it seems like it would be a bitch to show up, play four full rounds, and then go home.

Well, that's how most tournaments work. Hell, most tournaments nowadays are show up, play three full rounds, and then go home.

Some of the earlier ideas thrown around were things like 2 rounds with a 16 or 32 person match play finals, or 3 rounds with an 8 or 16 person match play finals. Both of those were not chosen because they didn't provide enough golf for most of the field.

 

[_MTL_]

Some of the earlier ideas thrown around were things like 2 rounds with a 16 or 32 person match play finals, or 3 rounds with an 8 or 16 person match play finals. Both of those were not chosen because they didn't provide enough golf for most of the field.

And I can't stress this enough - the big complaint is that this format means someone could be way behind after stroke play and then have that person win. Not sure who increasing the amount of people this can happen with is the solution.

 

[ToddL]

And I can't stress this enough - the big complaint is that this format means someone could be way behind after stroke play and then have that person win. Not sure who increasing the amount of people this can happen with is the solution.

On one hand you say "haha, I love seeing #16 UMBC beat #1 UVA in the first round! That's awesome!" But on the other hand you have to come back with "Jeez, they put in a lot of work just to have it all disappear in a single moment."

Everyone plays 2 rounds, the leader builds a bit of a lead, then loses to the #32 seed and finishes in 17th place. Haha, sucks to be you, that's sports. But also, dang, lot of work flushed down the toilet there.

Everyone plays 4 rounds, the leader builds a bit of a lead, then loses to the #4 seed and finishes in 3rd place. Haha, sucks to be you, that's sports, but also, it's not as substantial as falling all the way down to 17th.

 

[ThrowBot]

One opinion on this format:

I think the 4th round of stroke play will be the most interesting, as players who are in/near contention struggle to make the cut. That is a huge "moving" opportunity for everyone on Chase Card, and maybe more if the scores are tight.

After that, there's a lot less action with fewer players in the hunt. Sure there's "drama" in the match play rounds, but my heart knows that it's synthetic drama. You can make any competition close by erasing the previous scores and starting fresh at 0-0. But that makes the "All Tied Up!" narrative seem pretty hollow.

Again: just my opinion.

 

[Steve West]

...You can make any competition close by erasing the previous scores and starting fresh at 0-0.
...

If "excitement" means not knowing who will win until the very end, then six full rounds would be the most exciting. This may seem counter-intuitive, but it happens because more players means less predictability.

Cutting to four players really cuts down on the possibilities for who can win, thus decreasing the unpredictability/excitement.

Some - but not all - of that unpredictability/excitement can be recaptured by erasing previous scores. (With four-way stroke play being used for the final two rounds.)

Going to a bracket-style head-to-head format does very little to recapture any more excitement/unpredictability, no matter whether stroke play or match play is used.

If the dirty words are "match play", then the 4-person bracket could be based on stroke play rules without any loss of unpredictability.