2022 PDGA Champions Cup - 4th Pro Major

[Horsman]

I can confirm that I do not know who this guy is (Horsman), but I can confirm that he is lying about almost everything he is saying. Please do not believe a word this guy says. I know some people just like to try to make a name for themselves by attacking other people, but claiming that I cussed him out and that I didn't have permission to do a raffle to support St Jude is embarrassingly laughable. I haven't used profane language since high school (I am 35) and I have had permission each year (in writing) to do raffles in person and online to support St Jude. Carry on!

You might not remember me but we have dealt with each other before, in person and online. Granted it was 6ish years ago.

Would you be able to provide details on what I am lying and not lying about?

I have no reason to try and make a name for myself by attacking you or anyone else, my name is known enough. My knowledge of the game and useless disc golf information that I have shared on here over the years, along with my skill of the game have made my name known enough on here. I state my experiences

For your raffle claims. At the time you were unable to provide permits stating that you were allowed to hold the raffle legally. You were also unable to prove that St. Jude was ok with your practices. At this time would you be able to provide documentation of the permits you acquired for your online raffles and would you be able to provide a statement from St. Jude. My claims aren't baseless. I tried to get this info out of you years ago and I was met with hostility and led to you getting me kicked off of multiple fb groups. I dont get down with the fb anymore so these groups are of no use to me now so being a part of them now doesnt matter to me.

I have a very vivid memory of you cussing me out before one of my rounds the one time I played ledgestone. He said she said at this point, but it has shaped my view of you since then.

I do not enjoy how you have come on here and said that people shouldnt believe what I am saying The attack on my character is unwarranted. I feels to me as if you are trying to silence me once again and I do not agree with your ways. I inform people on my experiences and you have unfortunately been the cause of 2 bad experiences that I have. I am glad to eat my words if and when I am wrong.

 

[JohtoVillage]

You might not remember me but we have dealt with each other before, in person and online. Granted it was 6ish years ago.

Would you be able to provide details on what I am lying and not lying about?

I have no reason to try and make a name for myself by attacking you or anyone else, my name is known enough. My knowledge of the game and useless disc golf information that I have shared on here over the years, along with my skill of the game have made my name known enough on here. I state my experiences

For your raffle claims. At the time you were unable to provide permits stating that you were allowed to hold the raffle legally. You were also unable to prove that St. Jude was ok with your practices. At this time would you be able to provide documentation of the permits you acquired for your online raffles and would you be able to provide a statement from St. Jude. My claims aren't baseless. I tried to get this info out of you years ago and I was met with hostility and led to you getting me kicked off of multiple fb groups. I dont get down with the fb anymore so these groups are of no use to me now so being a part of them now doesnt matter to me.

I have a very vivid memory of you cussing me out before one of my rounds the one time I played ledgestone. He said she said at this point, but it has shaped my view of you since then.

I do not enjoy how you have come on here and said that people shouldnt believe what I am saying The attack on my character is unwarranted. I feels to me as if you are trying to silence me once again and I do not agree with your ways. I inform people on my experiences and you have unfortunately been the cause of 2 bad experiences that I have. I am glad to eat my words if and when I am wrong.

Look, one of my weaknesses several years ago (that I have now mostly corrected) was responding to every internet troll that came after me. A few days ago a friend texted me saying someone was blasting me with lies on DGCR, so I logged on to check it out. Clearly I should have moved on, but I chose to respond.

Just to clarify a few points:

1) I did not cuss you out, or anyone else out, at any Ledgestone event, including the 2013 Ledgestone event that you attended (pretty easy to figure out who you are).
2) Your St Jude raffle comments are ridiculous. As I surely pointed out to you back then, and will remind you of again, 100% of the proceeds from our raffle goes to St Jude, and our raffle is EXCLUSIVELY staffed by over 50 St Jude volunteers and patients. To insinuate that St Jude is not aware of where the money is coming from is absurd.
3) I have never been formally involved with or in charge of any FB raffle page, and therefore I certainly had no authority to ban you from any pages.

I truly don't understand why I should need to provide you with a permit showing I have the authority to do a raffle, and I surely don't need to show you a letter from St Jude. If you really want to "make" me do it, I am happy to post the letter we received this year from St Jude thanking us for our record donation. If it offends you that we raise money for charity through a raffle, well, find something else to be offended about.

I understand that some people have way too much time on their hands, but seriously, you don't have anything better to do with your time? Please ask yourself if it benefits your time (or my time to respond) to ask me to show you proof that I am "okay" to raise funds for a charitable organization through a raffle.

 

[Ryan P.]

Look, one of my weaknesses several years ago (that I have now mostly corrected) was responding to every internet troll that came after me. A few days ago a friend texted me saying someone was blasting me with lies on DGCR, so I logged on to check it out. Clearly I should have moved on, but I chose to respond.

Johto,
I prodded him into it. He was sharing some thoughts and I asked him for more info.

Johto and Horsman,
I'd love to see what each of you have to say about how you were wronged and how to overcome this. I think it'd be good for the DG community. It's pretty tough to have a public argument though, so I'd understand if you don't.

 

[Horsman]

Look, one of my weaknesses several years ago (that I have now mostly corrected) was responding to every internet troll that came after me. A few days ago a friend texted me saying someone was blasting me with lies on DGCR, so I logged on to check it out. Clearly I should have moved on, but I chose to respond.

Just to clarify a few points:

1) I did not cuss you out, or anyone else out, at any Ledgestone event, including the 2013 Ledgestone event that you attended (pretty easy to figure out who you are).
2) Your St Jude raffle comments are ridiculous. As I surely pointed out to you back then, and will remind you of again, 100% of the proceeds from our raffle goes to St Jude, and our raffle is EXCLUSIVELY staffed by over 50 St Jude volunteers and patients. To insinuate that St Jude is not aware of where the money is coming from is absurd.
3) I have never been formally involved with or in charge of any FB raffle page, and therefore I certainly had no authority to ban you from any pages.

I truly don't understand why I should need to provide you with a permit showing I have the authority to do a raffle, and I surely don't need to show you a letter from St Jude. If you really want to "make" me do it, I am happy to post the letter we received this year from St Jude thanking us for our record donation. If it offends you that we raise money for charity through a raffle, well, find something else to be offended about.

I understand that some people have way too much time on their hands, but seriously, you don't have anything better to do with your time? Please ask yourself if it benefits your time (or my time to respond) to ask me to show you proof that I am "okay" to raise funds for a charitable organization through a raffle.

To be clear, there is no trolling here or years ago when I called you out. Im telling people my negative experiences with you. At this point we are both saying things that contradict each other and we both believe we are truthful. I know youre not, you know Im not so again its all he said she said and this will continue in a circle.

1) I purposely do not hide on here like almost everyone else does with their screen names. I also have my PDGA at the bottom of my signature along with where I am currently located. I do that so people will hopefully be more trusting of a real person.

2) So my issues are not with your in person raffles since I have no clue what you have done with those. My issues were with facebook raffles by you or ledgestone or some one affiliated with ledgestone that were raffling off items and then donating the funds raised to St. Jude. At the time I believe I asked if there were proper permits for the facebook raffles and got met with hostility that eventually led to you having me banned from a few facebook groups. If my memory severs me right, at the time a permit was required to legally hold a raffle on facebook. I asked about it and it did not go well. The legality of raffles on facebook are probably the reason why all the raffle pages are now called waffle pages. I think that I pointed out how the possibility of illegally obtaining money from raffles and then donating said money could have a negative effect on disc golfs relationship with St. Jude. I look at it like this. If I sold crack and then took the money I raised and donated it to St. Jude. I dont think the police would be ok with what I was doing just because I was donating the money.

3) I have much different memories and if I am wrong then I am sorry but I dont think I am, just like you dont think you arent.

I think its a bit hypocritical to call me out for posting on here while you are also posting on here. I also dont see the issue with anybody choosing to spend their free time doing whatever they please.

 

[ballgolfconvert]

To be clear, there is no trolling here or years ago when I called you out. Im telling people my negative experiences with you. At this point we are both saying things that contradict each other and we both believe we are truthful. I know youre not, you know Im not so again its all he said she said and this will continue in a circle.

1) I purposely do not hide on here like almost everyone else does with their screen names. I also have my PDGA at the bottom of my signature along with where I am currently located. I do that so people will hopefully be more trusting of a real person.

2) So my issues are not with your in person raffles since I have no clue what you have done with those. My issues were with facebook raffles by you or ledgestone or some one affiliated with ledgestone that were raffling off items and then donating the funds raised to St. Jude. At the time I believe I asked if there were proper permits for the facebook raffles and got met with hostility that eventually led to you having me banned from a few facebook groups. If my memory severs me right, at the time a permit was required to legally hold a raffle on facebook. I asked about it and it did not go well. The legality of raffles on facebook are probably the reason why all the raffle pages are now called waffle pages. I think that I pointed out how the possibility of illegally obtaining money from raffles and then donating said money could have a negative effect on disc golfs relationship with St. Jude. I look at it like this. If I sold crack and then took the money I raised and donated it to St. Jude. I dont think the police would be ok with what I was doing just because I was donating the money.

3) I have much different memories and if I am wrong then I am sorry but I dont think I am, just like you dont think you arent.

I think its a bit hypocritical to call me out for posting on here while you are also posting on here. I also dont see the issue with anybody choosing to spend their free time doing whatever they please.

Seriously. You have a problem because he didn't have a Facebook permit? LOL.

 

[JohtoVillage]

I look at it like this. If I sold crack and then took the money I raised and donated it to St. Jude. I dont think the police would be ok with what I was doing just because I was donating the money.

Look, we just aren't going to ever see eye to eye. We are clearly different people with different ways of going about how we treat people. You are comparing my raising money for a charity through an online raffle to selling crack. I think that obviously says a lot about who you are as a person. There is no need to keep going back and forth with someone like you.

In other words, thanks for all of the passionate comments (on both sides) about the PDGA Champions Cup. I am very excited for this event, and am confident in our ability to execute this event.

 

[Horsman]

Look, we just aren't going to ever see eye to eye. We are clearly different people with different ways of going about how we treat people. You are comparing my raising money for a charity through an online raffle to selling crack. I think that obviously says a lot about who you are as a person. There is no need to keep going back and forth with someone like you.

In other words, thanks for all of the passionate comments (on both sides) about the PDGA Champions Cup. I am very excited for this event, and am confident in our ability to execute this event.

Yea, comparing raffles to crack probably wasnt my best choice of words. I was trying to point out that I dont think its right to raise money illegally and justify doing so because you are donating the money. Illegally raffling things online and donating the money and illegally selling drugs to donate the money. One is a million times worse then the other but they are both still wrong. Thats all I was trying to say.

 

[Horsman]

Seriously. You have a problem because he didn't have a Facebook permit? LOL.

Its not a facebook permit, if I remember correctly. I believe you have to obtain a permit at the state level to legally hold a raffle even if it is online.

 

[autocrosscrx]

Big issue that I have with match play is that I find live coverage boring as hell, especially if there is only one card. Players throw their tee shots, then you watch them walk 450 feet, drop their bag, spend 30 seconds setting up their shot, then reset because a cat just ran by, repeat. Hole out. Watch a 6 minute walk to the next hole and so forth.

With that said, watching x number of players jockey for a top 4 slot is very exciting to me.

 

[_MTL_]

Big issue that I have with match play is that I find live coverage boring as hell, especially if there is only one card. Players throw their tee shots, then you watch them walk 450 feet, drop their bag, spend 30 seconds setting up their shot, then reset because a cat just ran by, repeat. Hole out. Watch a 6 minute walk to the next hole and so forth.

With that said, watching x number of players jockey for a top 4 slot is very exciting to me.

Big advantage of this format live is no backups.

 

[krupicka]

Its not a facebook permit, if I remember correctly. I believe you have to obtain a permit at the state level to legally hold a raffle even if it is online.

Municipal level (and should be acquired by the charity)

 

[_MTL_]

Nate his business that he owns tied to the event. If you think he would risk his entire business over a raffle for a disc golf event....I mean....

 

[autocrosscrx]

Big advantage of this format live is no backups.

...if you strongly prefer watching Kevin Jones walk to his next shot over watching Kevin Jones flip discs over his head and try to catch them behind his back.

 

[Horsman]

Big issue that I have with match play is that I find live coverage boring as hell, especially if there is only one card. Players throw their tee shots, then you watch them walk 450 feet, drop their bag, spend 30 seconds setting up their shot, then reset because a cat just ran by, repeat. Hole out. Watch a 6 minute walk to the next hole and so forth.

With that said, watching x number of players jockey for a top 4 slot is very exciting to me.

See, I always liked that part about live disc golf, especially when Terry was out in the field talking to the players and just letting us know the vibe. I feel like as long as there is good commentary then live coverage is awesome.

 

[ejvogie]

...if you strongly prefer watching Kevin Jones walk to his next shot over watching Kevin Jones flip discs over his head and try to catch them behind his back.

I prefer 60-90 minute post-edited rounds to 5 hour live rounds. YMMV

 

[oldmandiscer]

I think the tournament should be 3 rounds of stroke play. 6 make the playoffs. Top 2 get a bye into the semi's. Then matchplay from there. Tiebreakers in stroke play playoff sudden death.

So I don't mind the format, I like giving the top 2 from stroke play an advantage and a bye though. It would give the stroke play more meaning and drama for performing well in the first portion.

 

[Ryan P.]

Yeah, I like the idea of the better you play the stroke rounds the bigger your advantage in match play. I thought about the idea of having 1 "up" per place. In other words, 1st vs. 4th allows 1st place to start the match play "3 up". 2nd vs. 3rd gives 2nd "1 up". If 1st and 3rd place won, then 1st place would start the finals "2 up". That seems like to large of an advantage, but idk how the numbers would play out. It also seems odd, but clearly the PDGA is willing to try stuff.

Also, I'm all for the different format. The "always stroke play" of golf is missing something to me. I realize the Ryder cup is different, but that's a team event, so it's already pretty different to begin with.

 

[DiscFifty]

See, I always liked that part about live disc golf, especially when Terry was out in the field talking to the players and just letting us know the vibe. I feel like as long as there is good commentary then live coverage is awesome.

I also enjoy Terry in the booth or out on the field. But you still have to blame the gaps, boring bits on poor poor preparation by whoever is producing the live coverage. They could easily fill gaps by having pre-rolled player profile segments, in the (tournament) bags, interviews with past winners, legacy players, etc. Would love to see Doss transition to field reporter (I think he would be ideal for this) and have Terry full time in the booth.

 

[ThrowBot]

Yea, comparing raffles to crack probably wasnt my best choice of words.

Don't beat yourself up too much. I thought this was a great new plan for future fundraising efforts!

 

[pmay5]

Big issue that I have with match play is that I find live coverage boring as hell, especially if there is only one card. Players throw their tee shots, then you watch them walk 450 feet, drop their bag, spend 30 seconds setting up their shot, then reset because a cat just ran by, repeat. Hole out. Watch a 6 minute walk to the next hole and so forth.

With that said, watching x number of players jockey for a top 4 slot is very exciting to me.

It sounds like on both Match Play days that they are going to have two MPO and two FPO matches going on at the same times. So, couldn't they have a video team following each match, and switch coverage between the matches?
Should cut down on the "down time".