lol now that's funny.
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American Disc Golf Tour
- Thread starter mfcastillo17
- Start date
LOL, right?
If I lived anywhere near the area the promises they made might be worth just signing up for it. Especially for a skilled player like..I don't know, Ricky Wysocki or Barry Schultz?
The problem is, even a cursory check would revealb that the people running this are known scam artists. So, as a pro who is ostensibly trying to make a living playing disc golf, do you gamble on the promises being true, or do you gamble on them NOT being true and therefore missing out on what could be a big event?
Tough decision, I would imagine.
Fame and fortune.
The letters "ESPN" put stars in some folks eyes, despite the details. And, of course, top pros will show up where they expect a payout, with the entry fee being of no consequence.
On the other hand, beside the doubts about this event, the scheduling means they'll be giving up 1 or 2 big PDGA events for it, or factoring some major travel into their calculations.
The letters "ESPN" put stars in some folks eyes, despite the details. And, of course, top pros will show up where they expect a payout, with the entry fee being of no consequence.
On the other hand, beside the doubts about this event, the scheduling means they'll be giving up 1 or 2 big PDGA events for it, or factoring some major travel into their calculations.
teemkey
* Ace Member *
It's highly likely Ricky & Barry asked about payout -- they make their living throwing frisbees for money. Love to hear that conversation.
jeffmonty
* Ace Member *
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Probably the PDGA is just patiently and quietly sitting back, waiting to see if this whole thing self-destructs on it's own.
The PDGA has no such restrictions. Players play in non-sanctioned events, or other series events (i.e.; Southern Nationals), all the time.
Nor does the PDGA have much control over the top pros. I guess they could unofficially request that the pros not participate, but I find it extremely doubtful that they would.
The PDGA has zero control over where the players decide to play. This isn't a league akin to MLB or NFL where there are contracts involved. The PDGA is a membership organization that sanctions tournaments. In their eyes, just as in anyone else's, the ADGT is just another unsanctioned tournament, of which there are literally thousands every year. Players are free to play in them or not play in them as they see fit.
As for sponsors, they too can't really force their players to go to or not go to certain events. What they can do is decide which events they will reward their players for participating/winning and which they won't. For example, they can (and many do) award bonuses for play in PDGA sanctioned events only.
Honestly, I don't think any of the manufacturers or any other sponsors are going to be all that upset if one or more of their team members goes to an event like the ADGT and represents them well. No differently than they're never upset if a team member goes to a local unsanctioned mini or league or club event and represents them well.
The only real roadblock I can see as far as other manufacturers and the ADGT go is the technical standards stuff. Just using Ricky as an example, Latitude64 (and DD and Westside) will surely have some new discs approved and released in the first few months of 2016. If Ricky is bagging one of those new releases in May, will Latitude64 go to the lengths necessary to get that mold ADGT approved so Rick (and teammates) can use it in that event? Or will he have to remove that disc(s) from his arsenal for the weekend?
DinosaurThunder
Double Eagle Member
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Even with the promise of a recorded ESPN taping, I don't see this worth it for top pro's. I would think focusing on the DGWT and National Tour would be the top priority for most. For someone like Ricky who has come so close and who's biggest win was Vibram last year, you would think his focus would be topping McBeth and not chasing a Salient run tour. The PDGA will bring along ESPN eventually, in fact I am sure they could easily put together a recording of the memorial or something similar. If I owned Innova or Lat64 I would be adding incentive's for my top pro's to not compete in this. I would think a nice addition to the salary/help on the road, would net our any winning from this event.
I only see the ATDG being attractive to mid tier pro's and maybe the pro's who don't travel the NT as much anymore. This could be an easy pay day with not much competition.
I only see the ATDG being attractive to mid tier pro's and maybe the pro's who don't travel the NT as much anymore. This could be an easy pay day with not much competition.
The thing is, many companies' existing emphasis on rewarding PDGA play (bonuses) is probably more than enough to "discourage" participation in the ADGT merely from a scheduling standpoint. There's an NT event the weekend before the American Open (KC Wide Open) and there's an NT the weekend after (Masters Cup). And on the same weekend as the ADGT event, there are a couple different A-tiers that are geographically convenient for travelers going from KC to Santa Cruz.
For many of the top players, they're going to have to weigh playing 2-3 PDGA events in which they can earn sponsor bonuses (not to mention year-end NT bonuses from the PDGA) against whatever the payday and media exposure might be at the ADGT. As you suggest, it probably won't be worthwhile for them to go out of their way to hit this tournament.
But it's also entirely possible that it would be more worthwhile for a "mid tier" pro to play a local B-tier rather than go to the ADGT event, even if the payout at the ADGT might be bigger. At this point, we know nothing about what the payout will look like at the American Open, and who knows when we'll know that? On the other hand, all we really need to know is the date of a B-tier to have a pretty good idea of what to expect in terms of entry fee and possible payouts (at least on a minimum basis). The choice to stay in my own bed and pay $80 to win $400-500 (plus bonuses) might trump the one to spend money on gas and lodging and pay $300 to win unknown sums. Especially if it's a decision I have to make 3-4 months in advance in order to plan accordingly (get time off from work, etc).
IMO, the more this event and its details remain shrouded in mystery with deadlines getting pushed back or outright ignored, the less likely it will be that they gain anyone's confidence in their ability to pull this thing off.
I could see a lot of semi-local southeast pros showing up to the ADGT.
2015:
May 13 - NT Steady Ed CA -- A tier Hotlanta GA
May 22 - XA St Jude, Seaside CA
In 2015, Schusterick skipped Steady Ed to play Hotlanta and then turned around the week to play St Jude in California. Then you also had some other sorta-local pros like Matt Dollar and Josh Child playing Hotlanta and skipping the NT.
2016:
May 6 - NT Kansas City Wide Open, MO
May 13 - ADGT Columbia SC
May 20 - NT Steady Ed, Santa Cruz CA -- A Tier Huk Central SC
This year the ADGT is sandwiched between two NTs, but not all pros are interested in going to California for an NT. I bet we'll see a handful of them hit ADGT and then the A-Tier in Central the next weekend. I wouldn't be surprised at all to see Schultz, Johansen, Dollar, and Childs at the SC tournaments. I'd be only slightly surprised to see Schusterick there, since he was perfectly fine missing Steady Ed last year. Wysocki would be an actual surprise since he played every NT last year, but I'm fine with being surprised.
http://www.pdga.com/national-tour/2015/standings#men
Check out the players who skipped the Masters Cup (Steady Ed) last year.
Schusterick, McCray, Melton, Todd, Johansen, Dollar, Dickerson, Schultz, Wiggins, Orum, Childs. All of those guys are a pretty quick trip to SC, especially if the ADGT can guarantee a good payout (yet to be seen).
JC and David... You guys make it sound like the PDGA doesnt really matter when we know that isnt true at all.
Sure anyone can play an unsanctioned event but thats not just what this ADGT is. Its an entire reworking of the competitive system really. Has no real authority over anything.
ADGT isnt just some for fun TD putting on events. I also think its crazy that sponsor contracts would allow a player to play in something like this but then again this is disc golf afterall. Pretty much a joke anyway lol
Sure anyone can play an unsanctioned event but thats not just what this ADGT is. Its an entire reworking of the competitive system really. Has no real authority over anything.
ADGT isnt just some for fun TD putting on events. I also think its crazy that sponsor contracts would allow a player to play in something like this but then again this is disc golf afterall. Pretty much a joke anyway lol
TheOtherBill
* Ace Member *
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Seems like McBeth owns all the California tournys, so this makes sense for several pros. Making Huk Central an A-tier should help too. Hatchet Harry, free your calendar for that weekend to film!
Also, it would make sense for Southern Nat'l players would make this trip... if the payout ever gets published.
The PDGA does matter, but their authority doesn't really extend beyond the confines of their own sanctioned events. As for the ADGT as some sort of threat or competition for the PDGA...I don't think it even registers on their radar. A one event "tour", even with a separate set of rules, tech standards, etc, isn't going to undermine or even impact what the PDGA has done, is doing, or will do. Aside from that one interview Brian Graham did, I think the PDGA's complete non-response to the ADGT is entirely appropriate.
As for sponsor contracts, I can really only speak with authority on what my sponsor contract (Latitude64/Westside) says. It does not contain any language that gives them the power to restrict what events I can and can't play. No question that PDGA sanctioned events are prioritized as far as where we should play, by both requiring me to play X number of sanctioned tournaments (which ones are 100% up to me) and offering bonuses for good finishes at those events. But it is also specifically mentioned that we are encouraged to play non-sanctioned tournaments as well.
The key thing for the sponsors is that their players represent their product in a positive and professional manner. There's no reason they can't do that at this ADGT event. Frankly, I think some folks are ascribing way more importance to this event and "tour" than is warranted at this point.
I didn't mean to imply that the PDGA doesn't matter. I'm highly critical of the ADGT's anti-PDGA stance.
I just mean that the PDGA has limited powers, especially in regards to the top pros. It could ask them not to attend, though I doubt it would. It can't fine them, suspend them, kick them out of big PDGA events, or otherwise force their behavior.
I'd love to be a fly on the wall at the PDGA, but of course I'd then have to keep what I learned to myself, which my be beyond my abilities.
*
Sponsors are another thing. They have a lot of factors to weigh, pro & con. Remember, the ADGT didn't go to the PDGA because "our competitors are there"---I wonder how those competitors feel about that?
Jenga54
Double Eagle Member
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yeah, i was following this thread for information mostly, however the fact that we have almost 5 months of off season to figure it out for them, I'm probably signing off for a while. post on facebook when y'all get it figured out for them.
Word. I can get down with all of that. The last part for sure and not saying ADGT is a threat to PDGA at all just the competing governing factor that has been very poorly executed already and possibly hinders the image of what PDGA is trying to do for the "sport"
Since nobody brought it up yet, there are IRS implications if a business entity tries to control a "non-employee's" affairs. If a player is actually an employee of the PDGA or a sponsor, that is one thing -- but if they are not, those entities would not try to restrict player's involvement in their pursuit of making a living. If they did, they could be held liable for employee benefits including insurance, withholding taxes, etc. -- and those costs could be retroactive to the date of their first association, which could be quite costly. Any experts in the tax field feel free to correct me, but this is my understanding of tax law as it pertains to employee / employer relationships.
My biggest issue with this entire thing is that they ate already on their heels and defensively blaming others if it won't be a success. Its like those passive agressive Facebook posts: "99% won't have the heart to post this, I know Im the 1%" or whatever. What it does is take the impetus of putting on a good event off the TDs and makes disc golfers reaponsible for the sucess of the event. With that sort of mindset,how could the event possibly go well? Quite literally their only draw is ESPN3. An app that also features such cant miss events as the European Women's Weightlifting Championships and the Colorado Springs semi-pro soccer team games.
Just look at their fundraising discs. I would be embarassed to feature a hot stamp that poor. They couldnt even find a decent stamped one to put on their website. If a manufacturer sent me stamps that crappy for an event, I would request my money back.
The two jerks behind Salient are well known scam artists with multiple BBB cases open as well as someone pursuing legal action because of their fake lawyer scam. And yet, they are trying to do something of great magnitude which will surely flop...and they will refuse to accept responsibility.
Just look at their fundraising discs. I would be embarassed to feature a hot stamp that poor. They couldnt even find a decent stamped one to put on their website. If a manufacturer sent me stamps that crappy for an event, I would request my money back.
The two jerks behind Salient are well known scam artists with multiple BBB cases open as well as someone pursuing legal action because of their fake lawyer scam. And yet, they are trying to do something of great magnitude which will surely flop...and they will refuse to accept responsibility.
jjpitt29
Birdie Member
A couple of questions.
1. Do you think manufacturers are really going to spend money to have a new disc "approved" by ADGT?
2. Seeing as they "took" much of their information from the PDGA for tech standards and rules, but are not giving any credit there. Does the PDGA have a claim for infringement on intellectual property?
Also, Not only do you have to pay the 300$ entry fee, but you also would have to pay the 75$ etc as a membership fee.
1. Do you think manufacturers are really going to spend money to have a new disc "approved" by ADGT?
2. Seeing as they "took" much of their information from the PDGA for tech standards and rules, but are not giving any credit there. Does the PDGA have a claim for infringement on intellectual property?
Also, Not only do you have to pay the 300$ entry fee, but you also would have to pay the 75$ etc as a membership fee.
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Well, it's the first 4 letters that are the draw, sometimes blurred with the phrase "ESPN Networks". Look at all the threads around here dreaming of disc golf hitting "the big time". Those letters put stars in some people's eyes.
But that's not the only draw. It could be a great course. It's no doubt a great venue.
And there could be a big payout promised---though you'd think they'd mention it when opening registration.
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