Bradley Williams Suspended

[onemilemore]

If the player is pre-registered for a tournament (oh, say, an A-tier in Vermont), they could send a copy of the letter to the TD of that event so he can deliver it to the player when he arrives. That's exactly how Cam Todd was informed of his suspension in 2004.

In this day and age, it would make sense that a copy of the letter be sent via email in addition to being sent by mail (no idea if the PDGA does this or not). Though, per the Ultiworld story, BW says he hasn't checked his email in a while so it's a moot point.

I wonder, if the notification letter were to have been sitting in his email inbox (as well as his physical mailbox) since, say, last Thursday afternoon and he hadn't retrieved it yet, would the PDGA still be considered to have poorly communicated in this whole ordeal?

He said he had not received an email, not that he had not checked it. Sorry if that was not clearly conveyed in the article.

 

[sidewinder22]

Why was Cam Todd suspended?

 

[Hampstead]

Why was Cam Todd suspended?

Didn't it have something to do with being an azz at the BHMO?


I know he was bitching and complaining to the TD. I heard the story before, can't really remember the details.

 

[oddjob]

Why was Cam Todd suspended?

https://discussion.pdga.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=26143

 

[threevok]

He cheated his was into a sponsorship by telling a top hat manufacturer he was a descendant of Abraham Lincoln and Mary Todd, Abracam Todd.

 

[DanJon]

You would know almost instantly because it SHOULD'VE been followed by an "excuse me" or "I'm sorry".

At least that's how I normally expect the scenario of inadvertent physical contact between players to play out.

Yes, you would think that. However we don't always know what kind of mindset our competitors are in. Especially when they are playing for food, lodging and travel expenses. Dollar should have not threatened him or engaged in the back and forth arguing. But he did.

My point about that was that he only further exacerbated the problem. I'm not saying ignore a douche on your card or accept his behavior. Perhaps just deal with it in the framework that the PDGA has laid out within the rules.

Arguing with some dude and threatening him only lowers yourself to his position. How are you going to say that you were in the right and make a formal complaint when you allowed yourself to become part of he problem?

If I was on the card and BW started with this and then Dollar joined in, I would call them both out once it escalated past a shoulder bump and became actual threats of violence and violations of rules of play.

 

[CaptainAnhyzer]

Yes, you would think that. However we don't always know what kind of mindset our competitors are in. Especially when they are playing for food, lodging and travel expenses. Dollar should have not threatened him or engaged in the back and forth arguing. But he did.

My point about that was that he only further exacerbated the problem. I'm not saying ignore a douche on your card or accept his behavior. Perhaps just deal with it in the framework that the PDGA has laid out within the rules.

Arguing with some dude and threatening him only lowers yourself to his position. How are you going to say that you were in the right and make a formal complaint when you allowed yourself to become part of he problem?

If I was on the card and BW started with this and then Dollar joined in, I would call them both out once it escalated past a shoulder bump and became actual threats of violence and violations of rules of play.

Agreed. But we aren't Matt and Brad.

But I will be checking my mailbox this week because I'm signed up for a B Tier next weekend......... don't wanna be dealt any surprises on Saturday morning.

 

[sidewinder22]

Who got a two month suspension for adding a scorecard incorrectly?

 

[DanJon]

https://discussion.pdga.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=26143

Hysell's comment about threatening another player and only getting probation and a new sponsor.....

 

[lyleoross]

I'm not going to harsh as much on BW as some have, but it is clear that there are some inconsistencies with what he is saying, and events we know happened, and what multiple voices have said happened. I'm willing to leave behavior not documented as a PDGA violation out of this, simply because we can see even here, where there is a ton of evidence, that the story swings all over the place.

I'm also way more confident in the PDGA, the DC and the process than some others are. The PDGA specifically requested redundancies and checks and balances on the process when it was set out, so that everyone would get a fair shake. I know that because that is what the Board and Brian H. asked of me. They reviewed what I had done to make sure I met those goals. That also explains why I have more confidence in the PDGA than some, I watched them work internally and know just how un-self serving the organization is. No, not perfect, but better than what I've seen in business and academic science by a long shot.

I'd ask that we all have a wait see till they are done with the appeal to see what the outcome is. If you really want to know more about it you're going to have to ask BW, because the info is going to be in his hands, and the DC won't release it. I do agree, a brief synopsis on the disciplinary list is necessary. And for the comfort of the base, an annual review of the decisions made or maybe some other kind of review by a third party. Mistakes happen. I'm damned sure they aren't malicious, but having an outside perspective never hurts, no matter what anyone tells you.

 

[Dcinmd]

You would know almost instantly because it SHOULD'VE been followed by an "excuse me" or "I'm sorry".

At least that's how I normally expect the scenario of inadvertent physical contact between players to play out.

If someone had just throw twice OB off the tee I would make sure that I gave that person plenty of distance to cool off and not escalate the situation as well by running into them on the teepad.

 

[unclemercy]

https://discussion.pdga.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=26143

lol at mtls comments in that thread. sometimes i still miss those boreds (sic)

 

[Whippetgood]

The only Cam Todd suspension I remember happened at the 2004 Brett Hambrick Memorial. This is from memory, but I believe Cam verbally laid into the TD after the event. The PDGA handed down a suspension and had the TD's of the MSDGC (Jason Southwick/Steve Dodge) serve Cam with it prior to the event. I believe Cam appeal the suspension and hired an attorney if I remember right. Maybe some of the others that were active on the PDGA forums could give more specific info. There was much discussion then about how the PDGA handled the Cam Todd suspension.

 

[lyleoross]

BTW - one thing to keep in mind, while I was asked to put together the disciplinary process, much of what I put together was already in place, just not codified. It isn't like the PDGA had a problem, and asked me to fix it. They simply wanted a written procedure that could be referenced. I did add somethings, but the process was already there.

The biggest thing that came out of going back and reading the Cam Todd thread is that some things haven't changed. Gossip and misinterpretation are here to stay. Even more is the observation that some players bring trouble on themselves. I had forgotten how deep the CT record went when he got that suspension. Repeat offenders are the first to call foul when they get in trouble. If you have multiple infractions and DC issues, and you dress someone down at an event with four letter language, I don't see how you can be surprised?

The name that keeps coming up is Tiger, yep, he used spicy language at times. But I don't recall him going to an event manager and dressing them down in public, period. This is the same. Nikko gets a pass, to some degree, because he harshes on himself. His language is directed in. As soon as you direct your language at other players or event personnel, you have a problem. Even then, you can get away with it if you do it in private or in a polite way. Look at Stokely last year. He did a YouTube concerning complaining about Ledgestone. But it was polite, and his real complaints were private.

 

[lyleoross]

lol at mtls comments in that thread. sometimes i still miss those boreds (sic)

The problem was that there was almost zero metering. The mods did some, but it got pretty harsh with little control. This site is actually better. It seems we have evolved with more self control. I see posters reel themselves in, and other posters step in when someone gets to far gone. It doesn't always work but often enough it does.

 

[lyleoross]

Last point, remember John E. taking a chunk out of PMcB at Memorial. John was relatively harsh, but all his comments were directed away from Paul. He was annoyed, but conducted himself away from Paul. That is the difference. John understood that getting in Paul's face or in the face of another player about the situation was not allowed. Some players don't get that and need to.

 

[unclemercy]

The problem was that there was almost zero metering. The mods did some, but it got pretty harsh with little control. This site is actually better. It seems we have evolved with more self control. I see posters reel themselves in, and other posters step in when someone gets to far gone. It doesn't always work but often enough it does.

i mean people were banned everyday but i agree with your basis. i also think people having had another dozen years of practice on how to use the internet factors in. as for me i have no excuses. your posts still read fairly similarly too and with good sample size. thats commendable and prob why im still reading.

 

[unclemercy]

Last point, remember John E. taking a chunk out of PMcB at Memorial. John was relatively harsh, but all his comments were directed away from Paul. He was annoyed, but conducted himself away from Paul. That is the difference. John understood that getting in Paul's face or in the face of another player about the situation was not allowed. Some players don't get that and need to.

you mean when he got mad because mcbathroom had to go pee?

 

[Hampstead]

Driving back from Nantucket and headed up to the Green Mountain Championship. I've seen many people in the New England area express they're disappointed they may not get the chance to see me play or compete this week. I will still be at the courses practicing in preparation for future events. I invite anyone who wants to see me play to come out and watch my practice rounds. Each day I will post when and where I will be playing. See you all out there!

-Paul McBeth on Facebook

 

[lyleoross]

i mean people were banned everyday but i agree with your basis. i also think people having had another dozen years of practice on how to use the internet factors in. as for me i have no excuses. your posts still read fairly similarly too and with good sample size. thats commendable and prob why im still reading.

Yeah, but I've made a donkey of myself here too. It is easy to get caught up in the moment. Most adult here includes Chuck, JC, Sidewinder (even when he disagrees or is mad at you he still stays in bounds) and Steve West. There are others, and I've been reigned in by even some harsh voices. Streets keep me on thread. It's a good community.