Climo vs. McBeth vs. (insert next dominant player)

[crusadersounds]

Many people regard Ken Climo as the best disc golfer to ever play the game. With limited disc technology, he dominated the sport by winning 12 disc golf world championships (then he moved to masters). His competition was guys like "Crazy" John Brooks, and Steve Wisecup.

Paul McBeth is the most dominant player currently, having won the last 3 CONSECUTIVE world titles. At the Memorial, after having his bag stolen partway through the tournament, he still almost won, demonstrating his adaptability and his coolness under pressure. He faces the likes of Avery Jenkins, Cameron Colglazier, Avery Jenkins, Dave Feldberg, Nikko Locastro, and Simon Lizotte.

Which one is better and why? I'll start with 1 argument for each player.

Climo was more in the pioneering era which means he didn't have the same tools at his disposal, yet he still played phenomenal golf!

McBeth plays against a large number of players with great skill levels, which makes his 3 consecutive championships VERY impressive.

My hope is that when McBeth has finished his dominant time (I think it will last for a while) that there will be another dominant player who comes in to take his place as he did after KC.

It will be interesting in the days to come to compare THAT player with these two greats to see "Who is the greatest player of all time?"

So, who do YOU think is the greatest player and why?



P.S. I searched and couldn't find this thread, so feel free to prerube me

 

[tomte]

I dislike those "greatest player ever" discussions. Why can't we just enjoy watching all of those players play amazing golf?

 

[The Happy Gilmore]

This is opening Pandora's box... But one question... How could you not include Ricky Wysocki in his list of competition?

 

[Skins]

Just as in ball golf, after Arnold and Jack, the competition rose because of the popularity.

No doubt Climo is champ and Paul is the current belt holder. But if Paul can win 12 titles like Ken, I'd say he's risen above only because of the fierceness of the competition now compared to back then.

In the future, as DG grows undoubtedly, the competition will only increase exponentially.

Yes, Tiger Woods was awesome, no he didn't catch Jack, but he did it with more competition nipping at his heels IMO. Just because he didn't get 16 majors, 14 or so is amazing in this day and age.

So, it's almost impossible to say who's greater, but if Paul were playing Ken both at the peak of their career, I'm betting on the champ.

Champ still doing it today, his longevity at this level in this sport is amazing.

 

[Cgkdisc]

There's still lack of data to compare Climo and McBeth at their peaks. Once the PDGA tournament history gets online going back from 2000, we'll be able to calculate ratings and compare tournament info more easily. No question that McBeth has a better forehand and throws longer than Ken currently. However, Ken was at his peak when a forehand wasn't critical and he threw farther than necessary for the courses of his era with slower discs than today. If Ken were the same age as McBeth today, he may have developed the same skill set being in the same environment.

 

[Shamis]

Future generations never match the dominance of the pioneers in a sport because the competition is always increasing. That doesn't mean that current top pro's wouldn't all beat Climo in his prime though.

 

[1978]

This is opening Pandora's box... But one question... How could you not include Ricky Wysocki in his list of competition?

Yet Avery, who hasn't been relevant in 5 years is mentioned twice.

 

[Jay Dub]

Many people regard Ken Climo as the best disc golfer to ever play the game. With limited disc technology, he dominated the sport by winning 12 disc golf world championships 9 of them CONSECUTIVE world titles (then he moved to masters). His competition was guys like "Crazy" John Brooks, and Steve Wisecup.

Paul McBeth is the most dominant player currently, having won the last 3 CONSECUTIVE world titles. At the Memorial, after having his bag stolen partway through the tournament, he still almost won, demonstrating his adaptability and his coolness under pressure. He faces the likes of Avery Jenkins, Cameron Colglazier, Avery Jenkins, Dave Feldberg, Nikko Locastro, and Simon Lizotte.

Which one is better and why? I'll start with 1 argument for each player.

Climo was more in the pioneering era which means he didn't have the same tools at his disposal, yet he still played phenomenal golf!

McBeth plays against a large number of players with great skill levels, which makes his 3 consecutive championships VERY impressive.

My hope is that when McBeth has finished his dominant time (I think it will last for a while) that there will be another dominant player who comes in to take his place as he did after KC.

It will be interesting in the days to come to compare THAT player with these two greats to see "Who is the greatest player of all time?"

So, who do YOU think is the greatest player and why?



P.S. I searched and couldn't find this thread, so feel free to prerube me

Why did you EMPHASIZE McBeth's consecutive wins but not mention Climos?

When McBeth wins 10 we can compare the two but not until then.

 

[TimSyl]

Skins Skins is offline

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Join Date: May 2014

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Posts: 28





Just as in ball golf, after Arnold and Jack, the competition rose because of the popularity.

No doubt Climo is champ and Paul is the current belt holder. But if Paul can win 12 titles like Ken, I'd say he's risen above only because of the fierceness of the competition now compared to back then.

In the future, as DG grows undoubtedly, the competition will only increase exponentially.

Yes, Tiger Woods was awesome, no he didn't catch Jack, but he did it with more competition nipping at his heels IMO. Just because he didn't get 16 majors, 14 or so is amazing in this day and age.

So, it's almost impossible to say who's greater, but if Paul were playing Ken both at the peak of their career, I'm betting on the champ.

Champ still doing it today, his longevity at this level in this sport is amazing.

Buddy and I have the Jack vs. Tiger discussion quite often. He has the similar opinion that Tiger had more comp. BUT, would you rather try to beat Tom Watson or Phil Mickelson, Johnny Miller or Ricky Fowler, Seve Ballesteros or Sergio Garcia, and on and on. Like Tiger, McBeth may have MORE good players to beat now, but he doesn't have to beat BETTER players than Climo had to beat. And BTW, Jack had 18 majors, not 16.

 

[Peter S]

names aside it is still the same question. It is asked in every sport when a new great comes along. Joe Montana or Manning. Babe Ruth or Prince Fielder.

I say K C shows by the number of titles he is the man. That being said we all have watched McBeth throw the old school discs at Cliff Stephens park on YouTube.

If a time machine is built one day, modern players in what ever sport will have the more complete gave and will ALWAYS win.

Current d/golf players have all the shots in the bag. We forehand about as well as we backhand and I do not recall a lot of players doing that 10 or 15 years ago.

 

[DatRedDude]

names aside it is still the same question. It is asked in every sport when a new great comes along. Joe Montana or Manning. Babe Ruth or Prince Fielder.

I say K C shows by the number of titles he is the man. That being said we all have watched McBeth throw the old school discs at Cliff Stephens park on YouTube.

If a time machine is built one day, modern players in what ever sport will have the more complete gave and will ALWAYS win.

Current d/golf players have all the shots in the bag. We forehand about as well as we backhand and I do not recall a lot of players doing that 10 or 15 years ago.

Prince Fielder? He isn't even in the discussion of the greatest brewer of all time.

 

[1978]

I would have preferred to play against the Crazy group... over Ricky group.

 

[Cgkdisc]

Many of the Champ's competitors, and even more so during the 10 years before the Champ came on the scene, were overall Frisbee athletes where disc golf was just one skill. Besides Crazy, Mike Randolph was one of those players who had mad skills and even made the Final 9 at 2007 Worlds (and several before that) having not played much that year. But he had gotten an engineering degree and a real job and never could focus just on disc golf. I suspect Climo still has better overall Frisbee skills than our top young disc golfers other than perhaps Nikko who comes more from the Frisbee direction than any of them.

 

[DG_Before_Breakfast]

Interesting thread. I couldn't make that judgement, since I never saw the Champ play in his prime. Would be the same as trying to rank Bill Russell in the all time basketball greats - I never saw him play, it was an earlier age of the game that was less athletic, slower game mostly below the rim, and less money involved, and but 11 rings sure speaks volumes.

 

[MichaelWebster]

It would be sweet to see a side-by-side video or an overlay of Climo and McBeth playing the same course in competition with 20 years difference. Just for fun and to imagine they are on the same card, not to prove anything.

 

[Smigles]

It's always the same discussion and the same answer.

Improving technology, more competition, better knowledge of workouts and diet plans and how they influence your performance, mental training etc. With all those tools, people today perform better than people when the sport was invented. If you could make a competition between player X at his peak (which was 20 years ago) and player Y at his peak with all his tools (which is now), player Y would always win.

Same in for example tennis, if Federer at his peak could play against Rod Laver at his peak with his cotton shirt and his wooden racket and his 100 year old running shoes, Laver couldn't even return a ball. The game is so much faster today and the guys are so much sharper today, the comparison is not even fair.

But Laver racked up all his grand slams, so the record for most grand slams will always be his. But performance wise, he would probably not even be in the top 100 today.

 

[DiscDraft]

Yeah, technology...and clearly HGH.

 

[jmdaire27]

Gretzky vs Crosby... all the same arguments.

I'd say lets jump in the way back and pit McBeast up against Kenny with the technology that was present at the time. To be a stickler, I think I would choose Paul...

Ken vs Paul vs... Simon. Just to fill in the blank of the original title. Paul said he loves playing with him in his recent ITB. I think they bring the best out of each other.

Cheers!

 

[mattdabbs]

I asked KC once what his longest birdie streak ever at Cliff Stephens was...he said holes 1-14. Here are 2 videos of McBeth playing Cliff with old dx plastic just for comparison to KC's best round...





- 9 with no bogies

 

[JC17393]