Common Plateaus, Issues, and Breaking Through Them

[slowplastic]

I'm glad people have got a lot out of this, I'm happy to help and wish something like this was around before.

Again though, these are the steps that I went through and not the only order of learning. I had the mentality that "snap" was everything and tried to get that late hold and grip on the disc at the hit, as per DGR instructions. Then SW22 on here is all about ground up and athletic positions. It turns out that the snap gets you 350' pretty reliably (I found), but it's no magic. And it can be inconsistent if it's all you're thinking about. But the more that my body positions are less terrible, the easier it is to have consistency because everything just goes through the proper positions every time, compared to having to get the arm/elbow in the same place during the throw somehow. The way SW22 looks at it teaches how to get to the ideal form by the end, but it was hard for me to think about initially because more things were wacky in my throw than I understood. And I still have things that are wacky or else I'd be throwing 475, and I don't know what they are! But, it's better than before so I'm happy.

 

[Mocheez]

-not getting elbow forward enough (no right pec area for disc)…leads to "alligator arming" since you're just swinging the forearm out from the body

Alligator arming was a big problem for me and took a long time to fix. The solution was to get my elbow higher and more in line with my shoulder. Unfortunately, in an effort to get my elbow higher, I unknowingly forced my shoulder higher. This of course didn't fix the problem and made everything worse. I had to focus on a low shoulder and higher elbow to correct both issues.

 

[banzai7]

What is "alligator arming"? Is it when your reach back is completely arm, and no shoulder rotation? Hugging yourself in the pull through?

 

[banzai7]

I Think Banzai we got similar advice at the same time may years back! I had exactly the same problem, lost the brace totally for a good couple of years as a result (wasn't a terrible thing in the long run as it forced me to work on other areas of the game to make up for the sudden backhand distance and accuracy loss) until Sidewinder pushed me in the right direction again a couple of years ago. Full length mirror will be your friend in sorting the problem, it helps you see it immediately and feel what it feels like when it looks right.

Lol we probably got the advice from the same people! I kind of gave up working on my form after I got a job overseas. But now disc golf is growing in Scotland!

Thanks for the tip about the full length mirror. My phone is filling up with videos too fast!

 

[NathanNoodleArm]

I'm glad people have got a lot out of this, I'm happy to help and wish something like this was around before.

Again though, these are the steps that I went through and not the only order of learning. I had the mentality that "snap" was everything and tried to get that late hold and grip on the disc at the hit, as per DGR instructions. Then SW22 on here is all about ground up and athletic positions. It turns out that the snap gets you 350' pretty reliably (I found), but it's no magic. And it can be inconsistent if it's all you're thinking about. But the more that my body positions are less terrible, the easier it is to have consistency because everything just goes through the proper positions every time, compared to having to get the arm/elbow in the same place during the throw somehow. The way SW22 looks at it teaches how to get to the ideal form by the end, but it was hard for me to think about initially because more things were wacky in my throw than I understood. And I still have things that are wacky or else I'd be throwing 475, and I don't know what they are! But, it's better than before so I'm happy.

I was like you, trying to find the hit, thinking it was the holy grail. Now I see I need to work from the ground up. I actually feel like I made some progress today from advice from SW22. In banzai7's thread he talked about actually doing the little bounce in the weight shift from behind video. Had a few shots just explode out of my hand.

 

[rhatton1]

Lol we probably got the advice from the same people! I kind of gave up working on my form after I got a job overseas. But now disc golf is growing in Scotland!

Thanks for the tip about the full length mirror. My phone is filling up with videos too fast!

Scotland? I'm intrigued - do you know Seamus at Reboot? Where do you live and are you coming down for the Quarry Park open?

 

[banzai7]

Scotland? I'm intrigued - do you know Seamus at Reboot? Where do you live and are you coming down for the Quarry Park open?

PM'd.

 

[DamonRipper]

SlowPlastic, just wanted to say this thread helped me more than most. :clap:

Seeing the phases you went through really helped me as I progressed. I've only been playing a year but am already in between the "The ~350' Barrier" and "Improved Bracing" stages, it has been enormously helpful to associate the things I am doing right as well as the things I need to work on to get to the next level!

 

[lyleoross]

I was like you, trying to find the hit, thinking it was the holy grail. Now I see I need to work from the ground up. I actually feel like I made some progress today from advice from SW22. In banzai7's thread he talked about actually doing the little bounce in the weight shift from behind video. Had a few shots just explode out of my hand.

I'm going to sort of disagree with this, the hit, or snap, is the completion of the throw. Whether you S&D, run into, or take a single step - as in a fairway drive, a proper hit or snap adds distance, accuracy, and keeps the disc on the flight path (think stability) that it is rated for. Yes, to get over 350, you need all that power from the lower body, but for what matters in the sport, accuracy and consistency, you need a great hit on every throw.

I see a lot of young guys throw really hard, with a powerful run into the throw, and they get great distance, but the most accurate players don't do that. They approach the run up with a lot less omph, and a lot more snap. Look at all the current masters players, Shultz, Climo, Brown, etc. They aren't sprinting into the throw. They have good power transfer, but their snap on every throw is exquisite. Paul McBeth is the best to watch. Look at his fairway drives. He actually has lower power transfer from his base than many do on fairway drives, but he can still get over 350.

 

[slowplastic]

I see a lot of young guys throw really hard, with a powerful run into the throw, and they get great distance, but the most accurate players don't do that. They approach the run up with a lot less omph, and a lot more snap. Look at all the current masters players, Shultz, Climo, Brown, etc. They aren't sprinting into the throw. They have good power transfer, but their snap on every throw is exquisite. Paul McBeth is the best to watch. Look at his fairway drives. He actually has lower power transfer from his base than many do on fairway drives, but he can still get over 350.

There's a difference between effort and efficiency. Just because someone runs into their throw and looks like they're throwing hard doesn't mean that any of that is getting into the disc. Look at Lizotte and Eagle. Both go into throws so casually but the efficiency and transfer is so good that everything gets to the disc and travels up their hips through the torso and into the arm.

Having a fast motion or "hard" throw doesn't help you if you don't have snap. My point is that finding the snap isn't going to make you a 450' thrower. It will give you the ability to get there and it will give you an easy 350'. But once you have the snap you still need to learn efficient athletic movements.

 

[sidewinder22]

Just thought I'd post this, Lee Travino - "Get Braced Up and hit 310":

 

[Putt for D'oh]

I'm very happy this thread got a few new posts. It brought me back here and really helps some stuff i'm having issues with.
It was one of the first threads I read on DGCR and I was throwing kinda far but all wrong and all over the place. Over the last few months i've basically stepped back, stepped back, stepped back and finally nuked my form and as I put the pieces back together a lot of this stuff is super relevant, funny different parts of the fixes/problems/plateaus are relevant than what I needed a few months ago, and I noticed the difference yesterday.

 

[tankmlee]

I started about a year ago and driving far was the only thing i cared about for so long, well now, after lots of practice and lots of review and research i can hit almost 400' with a slightly understable disc(-1) however i found that in the meantime, my putting and midrange abilities were canceling out my good drives, these techniques helped me out alot, but if you are new, make sure to focus on the rest of your game as well, a 400' drive doesnt mean anything when you cant make a 30' putt.

 

[bsammons]

So the midrange/approach/short drive section of my game is about as good as it's going to get, and I've been working a lot on putting and max distance. But as a 17 year old who consistently hits 360-375 with a fast fairway (Volt), how far should I reasonably expect to be throwing a distance driver? I'm hitting 380 foot lines with a Nitro (fairly OS speed 13) and I break 400 regularly with an Octane (beat up destroyer). Watching some 17 year olds (eagle McMahon a little while ago, etc) I know some of the elite players can put it out really far from a young age, I'm just unsure what to expect

 

[slowplastic]

Throwing in that 350-375' range with fairways translates to ~400' with golf flight pattern drivers in my experience. That sounds about right. Are you around 280-300' with putters and 330'ish with mids? You might be able to throw some pretty turny high speed drivers a little farther sometimes...but I doubt it would be worth it on the course when you can throw more stable stuff accurately, only 20'ish shorter.

 

[bsammons]

Yup that's about what I hit on a regular basis. I throw an Envy on anything (assuming open field) under 300 and a beat M1 (again assuming that) under 340. Volt picks up until 375 and then it's warp speeders. Should I really work on my max distance? I'm 5'11 and fairly small built, I just don't know if my maximum potential is gonna get much higher at this point, or if it will slowly come with age

 

[slowplastic]

I throw similar to you, and pro's throw another 10mph faster than us I think. I don't really think it's strength or anything to gain that much more velocity...it's a lot of small form things that have to line up to get any improvement in velocity though unfortunately. If anything is wrong it seems impossible to gain velocity when you're at this barrier.

Best advice is to put up some video, it'll be a form thing and likely hard for you to spot yourself.

 

[Casey 1988]

Okay I am having trouble with midrange. People are saying I should not be holding on to the midrange disc the way I do in the flight with my other hand. Trouble is if I don't the disc goes out at a 50 degree angle. I am using a max weight Star Shark or old Pro Shark having this problem. I do not as much with my lower profile max weight DX Stingray, though at times I do forget that the Stingray is not a wind disc. If, for my Sharks I use a grip that is more for midrange shots the one most use without the second hand I throw the disc at a 50 degree angle with the second hand I throw almost flat but still not right the Shark does a hyzer I don't want. What I do is a standing Fairway shot with the disc holding the disc with my fairway grip and use my second hand to slow the disc down, something I am told makes my shot lose some glide. I an adult do have small like kids XL size hands, is the size of my hands a problem? I do use two hands in my putt but that is because of my small hands, the left hand is just to guide the disc and have it go out of my hand stright. I am right handed for most of my play. I do have some left handed ability though nowhere near my right hand, I have more control and about 20-25% more power in the right. I can't throw a ROC or any ROC like disc as they tend to dump out in flight or just drop prematurely and the Buzz is too overstable for me. I could try a Buzz OS see if a neutral version of the Buzz is better.

 

[sidewinder22]

Okay I am having trouble with midrange. People are saying I should not be holding on to the midrange disc the way I do in the flight with my other hand. Trouble is if I don't the disc goes out at a 50 degree angle. I am using a max weight Star Shark or old Pro Shark having this problem. I do not as much with my lower profile max weight DX Stingray, though at times I do forget that the Stingray is not a wind disc. If, for my Sharks I use a grip that is more for midrange shots the one most use without the second hand I throw the disc at a 50 degree angle with the second hand I throw almost flat but still not right the Shark does a hyzer I don't want. What I do is a standing Fairway shot with the disc holding the disc with my fairway grip and use my second hand to slow the disc down, something I am told makes my shot lose some glide. I an adult do have small like kids XL size hands, is the size of my hands a problem? I do use two hands in my putt but that is because of my small hands, the left hand is just to guide the disc and have it go out of my hand stright. I am right handed for most of my play. I do have some left handed ability though nowhere near my right hand, I have more control and about 20-25% more power in the right. I can't throw a ROC or any ROC like disc as they tend to dump out in flight or just drop prematurely and the Buzz is too overstable for me. I could try a Buzz OS see if a neutral version of the Buzz is better.

Whoaz!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pO5zH_jQYjQ&t=94s

 

[Casey 1988]

I have issues with my Long Approach to Short Midrange shot. I think this is due to me using a max weight Shark at 175 grams and I should be using a 170 gram one to lighten the disc just that much so I can throw it. I was doing some shots today At the 33 foot mark about and I did get the disc to fly how I wanted, I do like my putt but modify it a bit so I am not using other left hand as a guide. I also did some odd little to no spin type pitch throw that also seemed to work for the shot as well, having the max weight Sharks an old style Pro and a Star one have the ROC Drop to the flight if the wind picked up today, we had gust to 40 mph. I think I can use the Shark as a disc for true Midrange to longer Approach shots, using one of my jawbreaker Magnets I labeled as a Approach and is for Approach to long putt while I labeled the other my main Putter.