Common Plateaus, Issues, and Breaking Through Them

[Casey 1988]

So to make sense of my post above, I will say I I have issues doing the standard midrange throw for the type of shot I was going for till I thought, the very short midrange to long approach I could use my putting style modified to what most others do for the type of Putting I do Just I would use it for a longer distance, then use my Max Shark midrange discs in that place.

 

[kolby_wan_kenobi]

Power Pocket

I feel I resonate with the 'no snap' stage of throwing distance. i have a good understanding of the game but my Backhand holds me back.

If I'm struggling to keep my arm tight and close to my body, leading with a solid elbow movement and allow my tricep/shoulder and hips/legs carry my throw, my power will increase? the snap will come?

thoughts anyone?

 

[slowplastic]

I feel I resonate with the 'no snap' stage of throwing distance. i have a good understanding of the game but my Backhand holds me back.

If I'm struggling to keep my arm tight and close to my body, leading with a solid elbow movement and allow my tricep/shoulder and hips/legs carry my throw, my power will increase? the snap will come?

thoughts anyone?

Keep your upper arm angle, the right shoulder to right elbow, 90 degrees or wider at all times. In reach back/load you should feel like you're almost reaching out to the side. Keep the upper arm wide and let the disc/forearm swing in towards your chest when at the right pec position, then everything will swing back out at the hit point. I think of the "no snap" barrier as not having your elbow and wrist used as levers, because you aren't getting your right elbow into the correct position and you end up dragging the disc from the nose rather than loading it up and having it blast out of your hand.

 

[kolby_wan_kenobi]

Thanks Slowplastic! sounds perfect! ill start working on it

 

[ILUVSMGS18]

I assume that this is for BH, so how does FH compare?

 

[slowplastic]

I assume that this is for BH, so how does FH compare?

From what I've seen most people with flingy FH shots max out at like 280'ish on legit throws. Legit meaning flat shots with maybe some HSS drift and then to some fade, rather than trying to flex the crap out of a fast OS disc. This "flingy" throw is because of isolating the arm from the body completely, they just try to snap the disc with their elbow and wrist.

Then it seems like they get a bit more linked in the arm to the body and most players throw 300'ish FH with their flex shots around 330' when they get the angles right.

Once I got my elbow linked to my body the right way, by keeping my elbow like 6-8" from the side of my hip and locking the upper arm angle, I was throwing 330-350' flat throws when trying to get a good weight transfer, although it was incorrect how I was using my hips.

Then add the shift from behind concept so I have better leverage and I'm in the 375'ish range. I'm trying to break through to hit 400+ more consistently so I don't know from here although I know some things I'm doing wrong.

I would look at this thread for FH: https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=128673

 

[DiscJunkie]

If I may say something to all those who have hit plateaus, endure chronic issues and KNOW what to do, just don't do them.
1. There is no magic formula, drill or mindset.
2. Knowing WHAT to do does not always translate into reality.
3. The cure is not knowledge, but work.
4. Go out to the field, or a deserted course, or wherever, and drill and throw and film and review and then make some progress and do it all over again and again, for as long as it takes.
5. Send those films into the form review thread and listen to what they say, or find a pro and get lessons
5. Last, spend time in drills to focus on one area at a time. You can't fix everything at once.
There is no substitute for work.

 

[DiscJunkie]

Someone asked Simon Lizotte how he was so good at throwing, he said something to the effect that when you throw a "million" throws, you learn how to do it.

 

[Zanguini]

"I fear not the man who has practiced 10,000 kicks once, I fear the man who has practiced one kick 10,000 times."
-Bruce Lee

 

[RocNasty]

Don't undo it...go to the field with the idea of trying something completely different.

Each plateau is a different throw and feeling. Know what feel and body positions you want to emulate and go through those positions in a smooth way. It doesn't matter where the disc goes the first few tries...find the right balance. Just don't try to throw your normal way while "trying" to be better balanced or doing something else slightly different.

This is a very important point for anyone trying to get to the next step, whatever it is. Each plateau is a distinct change in form (whatever your current plateaus are, the ones I had are not completely universal to everyone). Any minor adjustment will cap out distance until you go to the field and try to find a different feeling throw.

The good thing is that after going through this rebuilding process, once you know how the throw feels (and why it feels that way) it becomes easy to reproduce the new form. For example, it's easier for a good skateboarder to learn to do a switch kickflip, than for a beginner to learn a kickflip in their natural stance.

When pulling through the power point and spinning on the axis. Do you suggest rotation off the heel or toes? I have heard both and honestly catch myself doing both ways sometimes. Never noticed it causing any issues although I am sure sticking with one or the other would help with consistentsy.

 

[DiscJunkie]

When pulling through the power point and spinning on the axis. Do you suggest rotation off the heel or toes? I have heard both and honestly catch myself doing both ways sometimes. Never noticed it causing any issues although I am sure sticking with one or the other would help with consistentsy.

Spinning through on the heel is easier on the knees.

 

[slowplastic]

When pulling through the power point and spinning on the axis. Do you suggest rotation off the heel or toes? I have heard both and honestly catch myself doing both ways sometimes. Never noticed it causing any issues although I am sure sticking with one or the other would help with consistentsy.

Most rotate through the heel. It just happens though with balance. If you look at super slow motion of top pro's they extend the leg and clear the hip, and on lower power shots it's kind of the whole foot foot that is pressured at this point with the toes lifting slightly, and the outside of the shoe drags. On high power shots it seems to be more through the heel. You're not trying to change it though, it just looks different.

This is a result of your balance though. If you are spinning on your toes you may be pushing your body around/in front of the brace? But actually pressuring the toes feels scary to my for my knee.

For example here's McBeth low power, vs. high power in the second clip at 0:36. Wysocki at the beginning is very heel emphasized though.

 

[ragmanXL]

I feel kind of silly because I don't fit under any of your categories because I'm only throwing putters 190ft max and maybe my fairway drivers 225ft max on a great throw. I have made no progress in the last 3 seasons either even after watching numerous youtube videos on form and technique.

What should I be focusing on doing right now in my practices?

My current bag is a Leopard 3, a Diamond, and a Teebird for my drivers, my mids are a Z plastic Buzzz and a Z plastic BuzzzOS, my putters are Zero Hard Daggers and Lucid Wardens.

The reason I have two different putter molds is for super tight short fairways I can throw the Warden dead straight whereas the Daggers will fade to the left too much and jump off the fairway if its narrow enough.

I have been experimenting with the Luna and Aviars just to see if I can get those to perform better in the wind better then the others.

 

[tylerc]

What should I be focusing on doing right now in my practices?

Practice with someone who knows how to throw and can teach you. It is hard to learn through just reading forums and posts on technique. Someone teaching you will always be much better. If that person isn't accessible then posting videos in the technique section is as close as you can get.

 

[slowplastic]

Yeah just playing with someone who throws fairly will will open your eyes to what pace to take into the shot, what to focus on etc. For example people who come from Ultimate background often throw the disc way too slow initially and as soon as they see the right pace, backswing, and the velocity to aim for it's common for them to add 50-100' in short order.

Balance and leverage are the most important things though. No sense going faster if the disc is slipping out of your hand because your arm isn't actually swinging it right.

 

[ragmanXL]

I guess the way to go for me would be throwing strictly mid ranges and putters for now then. If I would chose a driver at this point I guess stick with that Star Leopard 3 or a Gold Line Diamond and my Metal Flake Teebird, I just got the Leopard 3 and Teebird a few weeks ago.

 

[ragmanXL]

Yeah just playing with someone who throws fairly will will open your eyes to what pace to take into the shot, what to focus on etc. For example people who come from Ultimate background often throw the disc way too slow initially and as soon as they see the right pace, backswing, and the velocity to aim for it's common for them to add 50-100' in short order.

Balance and leverage are the most important things though. No sense going faster if the disc is slipping out of your hand because your arm isn't actually swinging it right.

might have to film myself throwing RHBH, believe it or not most of the guys in my group throw Forehand primarily.

 

[Meillo]

Never a mistake to bring this thread up again.


I'm not so much experiencing these big plateaus, but smaller ones. Some time ago I tried the deep flightplate grip (https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=121557). It instantly gave me 10m more. Yesterday I re-watched Simon's form video. I took notice of the lateral positioning of the front foot. Placing it more to the left (for RHBH) gave me 5m more instantly.

What I like about these form improvements, is that they are no complex motions, no timing issues, no stuff in the hit second, but both of them are simple changes, easy to make, easy to check and done outside of the hit second.

Sure, this is only part of the distance secret, but never yet I gained more distance so easy.


For reference, I throw from a standstill/1-step and drive Valkyries, Eagles, Teebirds 90m (= 300') far on the field.

 

[ballgolfconvert]

Never a mistake to bring this thread up again.


I'm not so much experiencing these big plateaus, but smaller ones. Some time ago I tried the deep flightplate grip (https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=121557). It instantly gave me 10m more. Yesterday I re-watched Simon's form video. I took notice of the lateral positioning of the front foot. Placing it more to the left (for RHBH) gave me 5m more instantly.

What I like about these form improvements, is that they are no complex motions, no timing issues, no stuff in the hit second, but both of them are simple changes, easy to make, easy to check and done outside of the hit second.

Sure, this is only part of the distance secret, but never yet I gained more distance so easy.


For reference, I throw from a standstill/1-step and drive Valkyries, Eagles, Teebirds 90m (= 300') far on the field.

Best video i ever watched. Thanks

 

[Tinkles]

-throw felt like flinging forearm at the target from the elbow, rather than using the shoulder

-does not feel like elbow is flinging forearm anymore…shoulder is doing the work

Can you elaborate a little bit more on what you mean with "shoulder is doing the work" please?

For context, I tend to not think of the throw as a "pull" but more of an opening and collapsing of the elbow angle and my primary focus when throwing is on keeping the angles in the right place for all the hinges (elbow, etc..) in the throw to work together. I start my walk up with a wide angle between chest and upper arm (hugging someone else) and feeling a loose but controlled elbow hinge. What works best for me is to almost feel like the upper arm is flung out in a controlled manner when I turn back, and then it naturally collapses in and fires out. In none of that is my shoulder doing work (at least in my mind) beyond holding my upper arm and elbow up high. I hyzerflip a pro wraith out close to 400' with a walkup (and maybe am just capped as a relative newcomer to the sport at 40+) but would love to break that barrier.

So I am trying to understand this concept of the shoulder doing the work better to see if there is something I'm missing or not quite understanding.

TIA