Controlling Understability

[SunIsBlue15]

So I'm a RHBH player, and I typically drive with a Star Destroyer (overstable) and a Star Valkyrie (stable). I do have a DX ArchAngel that I try to throw sometimes, but I'm extremely inconsistent with it. Sometimes I get great distance out of it, but mostly it turns over and doesn't go where I want it to. From the research I've done in an attempt to understand stability, it seems like this is happening because the disc is understable and I have a big arm. Is that a correct assessment?

I've tried throwing it with a hyzer but it seems to flatten out and turn right almost immediately. Is my technique just wrong? What technique adjustments should I make when throwing this disc when compared to an overstable disc -- like my Destroyer -- if I want it to go long and end up straight ahead?

(if I didn't explain this well, let me know and I'll try to do a better job)

 

[dangitboy]

I think it is a combination of technique and the disc. The Archangel is VERY understable. I would suggest a star roadrunner. Try throwing with 60-75% power and concentrate on being smooth and see if that helps.

 

[SunIsBlue15]

I think it is a combination of technique and the disc. The Archangel is VERY understable. I would suggest a star roadrunner. Try throwing with 60-75% power and concentrate on being smooth and see if that helps.

Yeah that's kind of what I've noticed. If I throw it with less power I can control it a lot better. But I lose a lot of distance that way. It's frustrating because randomly I've probably had my longest drives ever with the disc. I just can't repeat whatever I did on a consistent basis. I'm not giving up on it yet, though.

 

[sidewinding]

To me there are two factors: Arm speed and nose angle. If you throw a disc faster than it's speed rating it will turn right more than the manufacturers posted ratings. If you throw it slower than it's speed rating it will maintain it's stability. If the nose is up the disc will stop spinning quicker and therefore seem to be more stable. if the nose is down too much the disc will turnover faster.

Disc weight will have an effect on arm speed. It's much easier to throw a 150g disc faster than a speed of 9 than it is to throw a 178g disc faster than a speed of 9.

 

[SunIsBlue15]

For the record, the weight of my disc is 166g.

 

[garublador]

The Archangel is considered by many to be one of the lest predictable discs ever made. A beat up DX Valkyrie will have similar speed, still be understable but will be more predictable.

 

[SunIsBlue15]

The Archangel is considered by many to be one of the lest predictable discs ever made.

Well, at least that makes me feel a bit better about myself haha. From what I've read, a disc being pretty beat up makes it more understable, right?

 

[Midnightbiker]

Well, at least that makes me feel a bit better about myself haha. From what I've read, a disc being pretty beat up makes it more understable, right?

Yes. And, not all discs are created equal. If you want distance, look for that in a disc that is made for that. The Archangel is mainly used for right turning shots for RHBH throwers. Same with the Stingray and Roadrunner. If you want something that goes straight, try a Pro Valkyrie, or a Viking. For overstable shots, look for a disc with those numbers. When picking a disc, check the numbers. Also, do lots of field practice.

 

[Donovan]

I would really try out a Discwing Quarter K II, Innova Monarch, Latitude Vision, or an Innova Sidewinder. Any one of those will let you throw harder and should start out moving right and then turnover and go left at the end. I listed these in the order of Faster Speed first. I didn't list the Roadrunner, since I have not thrown that one. Hope this helps.

 

[High Flyer]

Well, at least that makes me feel a bit better about myself haha. From what I've read, a disc being pretty beat up makes it more understable, right?

Very much so, especially if it's DX plastic. The champion and star plastic hold their shape better. Discraft makes some very durable plastic too. I love my "Force 2."

Some of my most understable discs were originally overstable (the wraith in particluar).

Also, you might want to try experimenting with your grip. Put your thumb in further when you throw back hand and see what it does.

 

[colombo117]

Archangel=Dogtoy
That disc is terrible

 

[DeafDiscGolfer]

Discraft makes some very durable plastic too. I love my "Force 2."

Force 2? Discraft already produced it or it just made up?

 

[High Flyer]

Force 2? Discraft already produced it or it just made up?

Don't know, I got it used, that's just what it's labeled. I've smacked the thing against the side of a building from 20 feet away and it didn't even leave a mark.

In a lot of ways I prefer it over my star x-caliber because it can be a little more forgiving on the sidearm throws.

 

[ERicJ]

He's talking about the stability rating of "2".

http://discraft.com/prod_force_e.html

ERic

 

[sidewinding]

Archangel=Dogtoy
That disc is terrible

I would argue that a medium weight archangel is the best driver for a beginner. It has so much glide that it will accentuate any problem you have with your form. If you stick with the archangel and learn how to throw it straight, it will help you fix any form problem you have.

 

[garublador]

I would argue that a medium weight archangel is the best driver for a beginner. It has so much glide that it will accentuate any problem you have with your form. If you stick with the archangel and learn how to throw it straight, it will help you fix any form problem you have.

But how will you know if you're turing it over because you have a problem or because the disc is unpredictable? IMO, something understable that is more predictable is easier to learn with.

 

[sidewinding]

But how will you know if you're turing it over because you have a problem or because the disc is unpredictable? IMO, something understable that is more predictable is easier to learn with.

When you say it's "unpredictable" do you mean that if you release it exactly the same every time it will do something different every time?

I don't think it's the disc that's "unpredictable". I think that if your form is not consistent, the archangel will force you to get rid of bad habits that make it look like the disc is inconsistent.

I always use something with predictable fade like a teebird if I have water or OB to my right and want to guarantee a comeback, but if theres no OB on the right there's no reason to throw a stable disc unless you need max distance. Since this thread is about controlling understability and not distance then stable discs are not the answer.

 

[garublador]

When you say it's "unpredictable" do you mean that if you release it exactly the same every time it will do something different every time?

No, and throwing the exact same way every time is impossible. What I mean is that small variations in form and weather conditions will have a large effect on the disc's flight. How can you possibly learn to throw well if you don't get any useful feedback from the results? A bad throw will always give you bad results with an Archangel, but a good throw will only give you good results sometimes. Why have that extra variability when you don't have to? It only slows down the learning process.

Stable discs that are beat up to be understable are more predictable and easier to control than discs that start off understable. It's easier to control when and how much they will turn rather than just knowing they will turn sometime and might or might not fade back.

 

[sidewinding]

It only slows down the learning process.

I disagree. If you learn marksmanship using a shotgun and then switch to a rifle, your aim will not be very good. But if you learn with a rifle first and then switch to a shotgun your aim will be excellent. The archangel is like a percision sniper rifle while a teebird is like a sawed off shotgun.

 

[Donovan]

I disagree. If you learn marksmanship using a shotgun and then switch to a rifle, your aim will not be very good. But if you learn with a rifle first and then switch to a shotgun your aim will be excellent. The archangel is like a percision sniper rifle while a teebird is like a sawed off shotgun.

I am kind of with sidewinding on this one to a point. I have to favor learning with something a little more difficult early on, in order to benefit you the most in the long haul.

If you learning to shoot pool with smaller (as in the width of the opening" pockets, the regular tables will be much easy. If you are learning to throw a baseball through a tire, I would start with something that has a smaller opening first. This way the tire seems huge! If you learn to throw a disc that is tough to throw (requiring you to throw level and with good spin)...once you conquer that, many of the other discs will take minor adjustments to become proficient with.

I have no idea if the Archangel is that disc, as I have one but have never really taken the time yet to throw it regularly.