Disc Golf Pro Tour

[jjpitt29]

If you are a fringe pro and that is how deep the payout is aren't you going to think to yourself this tourney only pays out top five but ten of the best players are there so what are my realistic chances of taking home some cash? Or at best am I just donating to keep the same traveling pros on the road. Lack of funds will always be the issue for a sport that is not mainstream. In ball golf you make the weekend you go home with a little cash and if you are outside the top ten you hope for more next week but you at least got some cash to cover expenses. If you only pay out the top five or six it leaves little incentive to becoming a touring pro.

Most tournaments the "outside" expenses are really small. A fringe pro (myself included)... I could risk 100$ for a chance to make 120$? With a very real possibility of losing all 100$. Or I could spend 20$ for the experience. Personally and I think overall you would get more people willing to "donate" 20 for the experience over people who would donate 100$ for the small chance to win 120$. If we are talking about growing the sport. Getting more people involved into the tournament scene. They are going to be more willing to try and keep trying tournaments with lower entry fees. It will be easier to get people to "move up" to pro if the entry fee is much smaller.

 

[PWaggoner]

I think people playing up/ not playing ratings is a huge problem. Half the good advanced players play open and nearly never cash. Then they stop playing.

If advanced was called semi pro i wonder if so many people would move to open that arent ready. Maybe payout in half merchandise and half cash.

Force them to move up to open at 960-970.

But i doubt youll ever see pdga not allow people to play open because the pros love a good donation.

 

[coupe]

I could risk 100$ for a chance to make 120$? With a very real possibility of losing all 100$. Or I could spend 20$ for the experience. Personally and I think overall you would get more people willing to "donate" 20 for the experience over people who would donate 100$ for the small chance to win 120$.

20 player field, $100 entry, paying 10 deep, over the course of a season, players averaging 6-10 finish have a chance to win back a fair chunk of their entry fees.

20 player field, $20 entry, paying 5 deep, how long will players averaging 6-10 finish keep donating, knowing they have ZERO chance of cashing, before they say, "Eff this $hit," and start playing minis, where they still get the tournament "experience" but DO have a chance of cashing, instead?

 

[Cgkdisc]

But i doubt youll ever see pdga not allow people to play open because the pros love a good donation.

PDGA already does allow restrictions on who can play in events if the host wishes to restrict them via qualification events, ratings or rankings. While it may take quite a while for the PDGA to do something like a Q-School, by providing ratings and rankings, events or event series can use that info in addition to their own to restrict access to those who can enter primarily based on skill criteria.

 

[jjpitt29]

20 player field, $100 entry, paying 10 deep, over the course of a season, players averaging 6-10 finish have a chance to win back a fair chunk of their entry fees.

20 player field, $20 entry, paying 5 deep, how long will players averaging 6-10 finish keep donating, knowing they have ZERO chance of cashing, before they say, "Eff this $hit," and start playing minis, where they still get the tournament "experience" but DO have a chance of cashing, instead?

That's almost exactly whats going on now, but they are losing way more money. Yes, your bigger tournaments will fill no matter what the entry fee. But your smaller tournaments aren't.

Point being if you have lower entry fees, you will have larger turnouts. Hence why you pay a smaller portion.

 

[DGPT]

Keep the great discussion going. From our perspective:

1. Create something worth watching
2. Build a spectator base (online and in person)
3. Show sponsors that we have spectators and reel them in

Cart, meet horse. Watch. And grow the sport.

You can't get real money until you get real eyeballs. It is time to create something that people want to watch. The Pro Tour and World Tour are both inventing this wheel for disc golf and we will try, learn, improve and try again.

 

[Horsman]

That's almost exactly whats going on now, but they are losing way more money. Yes, your bigger tournaments will fill no matter what the entry fee. But your smaller tournaments aren't.

Point being if you have lower entry fees, you will have larger turnouts. Hence why you pay a smaller portion.

Entry fees in the open field are more than low enough for small tournaments. Entry fees are not the issue for small tournaments. They are small tournaments so there is less money to win so less people come.

 

[jjpitt29]

Entry fees in the open field are more than low enough for small tournaments. Entry fees are not the issue for small tournaments. They are small tournaments so there is less money to win so less people come.

Sorry, but I disagree. I have seen just the opposite. Smaller entry fees have drawn much bigger crowds.

I'd also disagree that entry fees are "low Enough". Maybe that is just my cheap a$$ talking, but I really think lower fees will get more people involved.

 

[Horsman]

Sorry, but I disagree. I have seen just the opposite. Smaller entry fees have drawn much bigger crowds.

I'd also disagree that entry fees are "low Enough". Maybe that is just my cheap a$$ talking, but I really think lower fees will get more people involved.

What kind of crowd are you talking about, ams or pros?

 

[Horsman]

Also $50 to play a C-tier is low enough to me Id like to see that doubled but thats just me. I also dont like the model of a flat payout or paying out 50%. 25% would be a lot better.

 

[coupe]

That's almost exactly whats going on now, but they are losing way more money. Yes, your bigger tournaments will fill no matter what the entry fee. But your smaller tournaments aren't.

Point being if you have lower entry fees, you will have larger turnouts. Hence why you pay a smaller portion.

Nope. Payout a larger percentage of the field = larger turnouts. Doesn't matter if the entry fee is $10 or $100.

People will only keep coming back as long as they believe they have a legitimate chance od winning something, even if it's last cash and it only happens once every couple of years. Take that away, and they stop coming. That's why folks who got bullied into moving up who came to realize they stand little to no chance of cashing drop out. Reducing the percentage of the field cashing by 50% turns the pool of folks who are currently fighting for last cash into dead money, most of whom aren't going to stick around for long.

 

[cjman]

Nope. Payout a larger percentage of the field = larger turnouts. Doesn't matter if the entry fee is $10 or $100.

People will only keep coming back as long as they believe they have a legitimate chance od winning something, even if it's last cash and it only happens once every couple of years. Take that away, and they stop coming. That's why folks who got bullied into moving up who came to realize they stand little to no chance of cashing drop out. Reducing the percentage of the field cashing by 50% turns the pool of folks who are currently fighting for last cash into dead money, most of whom aren't going to stick around for long.

This is fact.

 

[Cgkdisc]

May just be true in the U.S. Many international events fill up and they are allowed to pay out as low as 15%.

 

[coupe]

May just be true in the U.S. Many international events fill up and they are allowed to pay out as low as 15%.

It's called supply and demand: 3890+ courses in the US, with dozens of sanctioned tournaments and who knows how many unsanctioned t'mts and locals every weekend vs. 5 courses/20 sanctioned t'mts total (Aus), 57 courses/23 t'mts total (UK), 59 courses/22 t'mts total (Japan), etc.

Limited supply increases the perceived intrinsic value of a good or service, and consequently the price consumers of those goods or services are willing to pay for them apart from the anticipated material ROI. That's currently the situation internationally.

Get back to me in 20 years when (if) the supply-demand curve internationally approaches parity with the US supply-demand curve.

 

[Aim For The Chains]

How do people explain marathon popularity of you need a payout to grow an event?

People pay to compete in stuff all the time without much chance of winning. Did the ledgestone open grow the sport a ton bc a bunch of hacks got paid way down the chain? Doubtful. Redistribution takes away incentives to work harder to be the best and compete. Either play bc you want to be the best or bc you love the game of DG.

I'd never enter an event that I'd have very little chance to come out on top and expect to get ANYTHING but my ass handed to me.

Playing in a DG event is not about "ROI" its a hobby with no investment value. You're throwing money away for fun. All of us are. This a job for like .00001 of all players lol.

 

[Horsman]

I dont play a tournament because I have a chance to win money. My entry fee covers my chance to compete againt my peers. I play to compete and see who is better that day, weekend or week. The money you win is just a bonus for me. Im not trying to make a living off of it nor will I ever. I do not like deep payouts because half the time to me it is just a slap in the face. Why should I get rewarded for playing mediocre golf. I know I am in the less than 1% that thinks this way but thats me.

 

[Horsman]

How do people explain marathon popularity of you need a payout to grow an event?

People pay to compete in stuff all the time without much chance of winning. Did the ledgestone open grow the sport a ton bc a bunch of hacks got paid way down the chain? Doubtful. Redistribution takes away incentives to work harder to be the best and compete. Either play bc you want to be the best or bc you love the game of DG.

I'd never enter an event that I'd have very little chance to come out on top and expect to get ANYTHING but my ass handed to me.

Playing in a DG event is not about "ROI" its a hobby with no investment value. You're throwing money away for fun. All of us are. This a job for like .00001 of all players lol.

I dont agree with you very often but today I do.

 

[jjpitt29]

I dont play a tournament because I have a chance to win money. My entry fee covers my chance to compete againt my peers. I play to compete and see who is better that day, weekend or week. The money you win is just a bonus for me. Im not trying to make a living off of it nor will I ever. I do not like deep payouts because half the time to me it is just a slap in the face. Why should I get rewarded for playing mediocre golf. I know I am in the less than 1% that thinks this way but thats me.

Agreed.

 

[JC17393]

How do people explain marathon popularity of you need a payout to grow an event?

People pay to compete in stuff all the time without much chance of winning. Did the ledgestone open grow the sport a ton bc a bunch of hacks got paid way down the chain? Doubtful. Redistribution takes away incentives to work harder to be the best and compete. Either play bc you want to be the best or bc you love the game of DG.

I'd never enter an event that I'd have very little chance to come out on top and expect to get ANYTHING but my ass handed to me.

Playing in a DG event is not about "ROI" its a hobby with no investment value. You're throwing money away for fun. All of us are. This a job for like .00001 of all players lol.

I agree 100% with this as it pertains to amateur play, and maybe even the pro side on a local level. But it isn't universal.

When it comes to pros, particularly at the highest levels, where a fair number of participants have aspirations of it being more than a hobby but a career, deeper payouts help make that possible. This is one of the philosophies that the DGPT espouses (and Steve Dodge has been on about for years). Top heavy payouts at top events only allow the very best players to sustain themselves on tour. Spreading the wealth a bit, by paying flatter and deeper, keeps more players in a position to make enough to keep themselves on tour.

 

[Aim For The Chains]

Yeah the whole "pro" disc golfer definition gets cloudy...

It's just a hunch but I have a feeling a select few work much harder at disc golf like a true job vs a travelling good time to pocket some coin and throw around the country.

So it's hard to say really how paying some ofnthose aspsiring to be great but are not yet helps. Maybe it keeps them moving along but also takes away from others doing a lot more.