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Filming?
- Thread starter slowRoll
- Start date
- Joined
- Nov 2, 2008
- Messages
- 21,995
Side and rear views are most helpful, boy. Side helps to see the elbow chop. Rear helps to see planes and disc flight.
xJFK
Double Eagle Member
as many angles as possible on the same throw is best. more angles = more thorough analysis
Darth Anovin
Eagle Member
Definitely slow the footage down. It really helps a lot. Check out the video I made a few days ago.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avd7Fn7XWek
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avd7Fn7XWek
I don't own anything that special guys. Since I've gotten away from torqueing everything over the top and forcing it over, I haven't had a 400' drive. The good news is that my 350' is much more consistent, but I know that I am:
A. Older at almost 37
B. Fat at 5'10" 225
C. An amatuer that doesn't have great form or snap
I'll try to get my wife to film a few throws and maybe you guys can tell me one or two small adjustments I can work on. Thanks for the thoughts.
A. Older at almost 37
B. Fat at 5'10" 225
C. An amatuer that doesn't have great form or snap
I'll try to get my wife to film a few throws and maybe you guys can tell me one or two small adjustments I can work on. Thanks for the thoughts.
Here is my first video. I was gently throwing these mids out to about 250' or so. The Comet and the beat ESP Buzzz flipped up to flat and S curved straight ahead about 10' short of the fence in my yard. The new Z Buzzz (2nd shot) held the hyzer and finished well left of the other two. I can push a mid out around 300' but would never do so in a tourny. At that range, I would rather just use a driver on hyzer. Let me know what you think as you have time (garublador, I'm looking at you
)Thanks everyone.
garublador
* Ace Member *
It looks like most of it is "hit" related.
You may be starting your pull too early. It looks like you're starting your pull as you plant your foot. It should happen after you plant your foot. I'd guess the rest of the stuff happens at least partially because of this to help prevent grip lock.
You're also swinging your arm around you rather than coming in close to your right pec. Because of that you aren't getting any elbow chop and very little, if any wrist extension. Your shoulders are probably a bit ahead of your elbow, but it's a little more difficult to see from this angle. If you can freeze it at a point where your right shoulder is facing forward you'll see just how far away from your chest the disc is and how your elbow isn't forward yet.
Also, go back to katchz's video he posted of the putter drives and read about lining up your arm. Compare his to yours and you'll see pretty quick how you can gain some power just by doing that. You'll see that your forearm is out of alignment with your elbow and shoulders. Your forearm is pointing downward and the rest of your body is pointing upward. If you want something quick to try to fix this might be a good candidate. Try starting your pull down at your stomach rather than up at your shoulder.
I believe that doing the hammer pound drills and then building your throw from the hit back will be the easiest way to fix all this stuff. The hammer pound drill will help you feel what the hit should feel like. Then all you have to do is build the rest of your throw around emulating that. Building your throw from the hit back should help the timing between your body and arm and help you get the weight shift timed right. If JoshEpoo gets his "reach around" drill posted that might help, too.
If you just want a couple small things, starting your pull lower rather than higher and maybe start your pull a bit away from your body and then pull in to your right pec rather than starting in at your body and pulling away from your chest might both help. If you haven't done them, the hammer pound drills will help. They don't take very long to do and aren't really designed to build muscle memory, so they don't need to be done a whole lot. They're meant to help you gain the feeling of manipulating the weight of the disc which is really what "snap" is.
Getting the pull a little later is a good thing to try. It might take a bit longer to get the feel for that right, though.
You may be starting your pull too early. It looks like you're starting your pull as you plant your foot. It should happen after you plant your foot. I'd guess the rest of the stuff happens at least partially because of this to help prevent grip lock.
You're also swinging your arm around you rather than coming in close to your right pec. Because of that you aren't getting any elbow chop and very little, if any wrist extension. Your shoulders are probably a bit ahead of your elbow, but it's a little more difficult to see from this angle. If you can freeze it at a point where your right shoulder is facing forward you'll see just how far away from your chest the disc is and how your elbow isn't forward yet.
Also, go back to katchz's video he posted of the putter drives and read about lining up your arm. Compare his to yours and you'll see pretty quick how you can gain some power just by doing that. You'll see that your forearm is out of alignment with your elbow and shoulders. Your forearm is pointing downward and the rest of your body is pointing upward. If you want something quick to try to fix this might be a good candidate. Try starting your pull down at your stomach rather than up at your shoulder.
I believe that doing the hammer pound drills and then building your throw from the hit back will be the easiest way to fix all this stuff. The hammer pound drill will help you feel what the hit should feel like. Then all you have to do is build the rest of your throw around emulating that. Building your throw from the hit back should help the timing between your body and arm and help you get the weight shift timed right. If JoshEpoo gets his "reach around" drill posted that might help, too.
If you just want a couple small things, starting your pull lower rather than higher and maybe start your pull a bit away from your body and then pull in to your right pec rather than starting in at your body and pulling away from your chest might both help. If you haven't done them, the hammer pound drills will help. They don't take very long to do and aren't really designed to build muscle memory, so they don't need to be done a whole lot. They're meant to help you gain the feeling of manipulating the weight of the disc which is really what "snap" is.
Getting the pull a little later is a good thing to try. It might take a bit longer to get the feel for that right, though.
JoshEpoo
* Ace Member *
You've got a good attitude. You looked like you were in command of your body the whole shot with no crazy flailing. Both of those are good. I'll point out a few things:
Your release point and the direction the disc is traveling on release is moving around like crazy. The Comet was the best shot, the Buzzzes both came out early, and the beat Buzzz was real nose up. You might just be naturally compensating on the ESP Buzzz because it still flipped and flew at what appeared was probably your target.
Even though you're not trying to mash these shots, you still need to accelerate the disc the whole time it's in your hand to achieve any kind of consistency. Right now your arm speed is peaking way before the hit. It seems like you're trying to take a lil off the shot right at the end, which just isn't the way it's done. You lose all your snap and accuracy that way. You're better off shaving power of the back of your shot (the run-up and reachback) than easing up at the end of the shot. This is what the hammer pound and right pec drills teach.
Your following through with your palm facing the sky, which makes it harder to rotate your torso on the follow through, and it implies some level of wrist roll over the top.
Overall you seem like a nice guy and I think you'll keep getting better if you want to. You've got the right philosophy and attitude to be a solid player at least.
Garu beat me by like 20 min but I didn't notice in time
Your release point and the direction the disc is traveling on release is moving around like crazy. The Comet was the best shot, the Buzzzes both came out early, and the beat Buzzz was real nose up. You might just be naturally compensating on the ESP Buzzz because it still flipped and flew at what appeared was probably your target.
Even though you're not trying to mash these shots, you still need to accelerate the disc the whole time it's in your hand to achieve any kind of consistency. Right now your arm speed is peaking way before the hit. It seems like you're trying to take a lil off the shot right at the end, which just isn't the way it's done. You lose all your snap and accuracy that way. You're better off shaving power of the back of your shot (the run-up and reachback) than easing up at the end of the shot. This is what the hammer pound and right pec drills teach.
Your following through with your palm facing the sky, which makes it harder to rotate your torso on the follow through, and it implies some level of wrist roll over the top.
Overall you seem like a nice guy and I think you'll keep getting better if you want to. You've got the right philosophy and attitude to be a solid player at least.
Garu beat me by like 20 min but I didn't notice in time
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Thank you Josh. I really was trying to power down because I didn't want to throw them over the fence (and have to walk all the way around it through the mud and disturb the horses). I'll try to post a video of me driving where I'm not trying to baby it. I think that the biggest problem for most of us is that we have learned tendencies. I've been throwing this way for 4 years now and it will be difficult to change, but I am willing to keep working at it. Honestly, it all happens so fast. The only thing I really consider is disc selection, footing, power level, and the plane I'm throwing on. I've never accidentally hit my chest while pulling through(like I've read should happen), so I knew that I was getting away from my body. I have no idea what "Try starting your pull down at your stomach rather than up at your shoulder." a pull down is.
At 951 rated, I'm ok. But I'm never going to get any better until I clean some of this mess up. My putting is what sets me apart. I'm usually one of the worst off the teebox but I have a bigger circle than some others to put it inside of. I need to just work on one thing at a time. I'll start with trying to keep my forearm (and thus the disc) up as I begin my throw. I have a tendency to just let the whole arm relax (and just kinda hang there) until I start my pull through.
Thanks again. I'll think this through some more and post another video as I get time.
At 951 rated, I'm ok. But I'm never going to get any better until I clean some of this mess up. My putting is what sets me apart. I'm usually one of the worst off the teebox but I have a bigger circle than some others to put it inside of. I need to just work on one thing at a time. I'll start with trying to keep my forearm (and thus the disc) up as I begin my throw. I have a tendency to just let the whole arm relax (and just kinda hang there) until I start my pull through.
Thanks again. I'll think this through some more and post another video as I get time.
fairweather_fan
Eagle Member
"try starting your pull [down] at the stomach rather than [up] at the shoulder"
just take out the "down" and "up" to get what he's saying.
just take out the "down" and "up" to get what he's saying.
JoshEpoo
* Ace Member *
I think what would help most would be some video of you throwing the Buzzzes and Comet, and perhaps even your putters, from a standstill, on relaxed, snappy shots, with a strong powerful forearm/wrist/hand when you follow through. Throw 'em on a straight line and a gentle hyzer at a target 250' away. I'm not concerned with your run up because you're taking a pretty conservative X-step which looks fine.
What does concern me is that your hand is "opening up" right before the hit and letting the disc go instead of clamping down on that little ****er and making it fight to get out because of the sudden change of direction of the disc at the apex of your shot, which is how you get a consistent release point and good snap. Your hand should still be clamped down well after the disc comes out.
What does concern me is that your hand is "opening up" right before the hit and letting the disc go instead of clamping down on that little ****er and making it fight to get out because of the sudden change of direction of the disc at the apex of your shot, which is how you get a consistent release point and good snap. Your hand should still be clamped down well after the disc comes out.
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garublador
* Ace Member *
It's a misunderstanding.
I was trying to say to start your pull at a lower point, as in start with the disc at stomach or chest level rather than starting it at shoulder level. It's not something that's common among all people who throw far, but it might help and it's relatively quick to try.
I should have said that, too. Don't lose that.
I also didn't realize you were taking some off the shot. What JoshEpoo said about taking power off your shots is spot on.
I'm quite used to being misunderstood myself. Thanks for the clarification garublador. I'll just film some more with the same 3 discs like Josh recomended, and I'll throw them with more power. You will see the OAT creeping back in when I try and throw hard. I've been trying to get away from throwing everything flat to anhyzer the last year or so. I'm doing a much better job at actually throwing with hyzer now, so there has been improvement. 80% power with control is better than 100% wild, but I'll never get to full power with control unless I work at it.
Lewis
* Ace Member *
At :51 I see your wrist is rolled way over, with your palm facing up. What you did to get there may be causing the OAT that you're trying to get rid of.
Lewis
* Ace Member *
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