[Innova] Firefly

[HERB brooks]

Literally any other company - I think Innova is THE WORST for baseline - which is odd since they are the leaders in most other areas - but Trilogy has great baseline with 3 firmness choices, same with MVP and Prodigy being good as well. Discraft kinda sucks but theyre trying - Innova has been the worst without a doubt - their putters are slippery, warp, don't have good grip, break in the cold, slip out of chains - the only thing is when they are worn in nicely they are good for weather 55-75 degrees. and that's it. Too cold, they suck, too hot? they suck

Innova Baseline SUCKS! - Fight me!!!

All baseline warps... all stiff baseline breaks in super cold weather... all baseline can slip out of chains.

I'll concede your point on grip. I like it (DX/KC Pro) but everyone has different tastes when it comes to texture and grip.

 

[jakebake91]

Literally any other company - I think Innova is THE WORST for baseline - which is odd since they are the leaders in most other areas - but Trilogy has great baseline with 3 firmness choices, same with MVP and Prodigy being good as well. Discraft kinda sucks but theyre trying - Innova has been the worst without a doubt - their putters are slippery, warp, don't have good grip, break in the cold, slip out of chains - the only thing is when they are worn in nicely they are good for weather 55-75 degrees. and that's it. Too cold, they suck, too hot? they suck

Innova Baseline SUCKS! - Fight me!!!

I don't really have a strong opinion here , but I have a dislike of Innova in general ....so I like this guys take on this. So...if a true fight breaks out, I'm in his corner!

 

[discerdoo]

Electron soft is super durable. I have an Atom that has over 2 years on it in the bag and it's still a 8/10. It had over a year as my primary putter.

Electron Firm is also durable, but there can be a bit of rim warping on a solid hit. It can be straightened out though. All firm baselines warp on hard hits.

Notice I left out Electron Medium. If that is what you have experience with...yeah, I understand you not liking it. Waffle top city, baby! More useless than DX.

I personally don't think MVP electron is much better than DX or Pro D, it's just priced like it. Haven't tried soft E but putted with regular and firm E Atoms for over a year. I prefer Discraft JB plastic at a similar price point.

 

[SD86]

Literally any other company - I think Innova is THE WORST for baseline - which is odd since they are the leaders in most other areas - but Trilogy has great baseline with 3 firmness choices, same with MVP and Prodigy being good as well. Discraft kinda sucks but theyre trying - Innova has been the worst without a doubt - their putters are slippery, warp, don't have good grip, break in the cold, slip out of chains - the only thing is when they are worn in nicely they are good for weather 55-75 degrees. and that's it. Too cold, they suck, too hot? they suck

Innova Baseline SUCKS! - Fight me!!!

Okay, I'll fight you! Just kidding.

Seriously, I pretty much agree with you, but will add the caveat that it sometimes depends on the run of DX. The DX Thunderbirds that came out a while back were really, really nice; most who have experienced that mold and run are hoping for that material again. I have a DX Leopard3 and a D-line FD and a DX Roc3 that feel good and grip well. I also have several DX discs that feel waxy and are slick.

Most baselines are less durable than premium; that's one reason why they're baseline. So that should be expected, going in. It's also a reason I don't like throwing my putting putter.

IMHO, the Pro-D Challenger I bought was the worst baseline plastic I ever experienced. The Challenger was a good putter; Pro-D plastic was not. So I tried Dynamic Discs putters, and never left.

 

[steinkecm]

I imagine that with Sexton as Team Captain, they wanted him throwing only Innova. So they're releasing their own version of the P2 with a weird name.

The Tour Series Aviar plastic is....odd. It's not really McPro or KC Pro. I'm hoping whatever this Innova announcement is some sort of better pro plastic.

 

[hurricaine]

Literally any other company - I think Innova is THE WORST for baseline - which is odd since they are the leaders in most other areas - but Trilogy has great baseline with 3 firmness choices, same with MVP and Prodigy being good as well. Discraft kinda sucks but theyre trying - Innova has been the worst without a doubt - their putters are slippery, warp, don't have good grip, break in the cold, slip out of chains - the only thing is when they are worn in nicely they are good for weather 55-75 degrees. and that's it. Too cold, they suck, too hot? they suck

Innova Baseline SUCKS! - Fight me!!!

trilogy baseline literally warps and changes after a few hits. I do not understand how people bag and throw these. I had a sinus (that i loved) that literally looked like it was thrown into a gator pond

 

[steinkecm]

trilogy baseline literally warps and changes after a few hits. I do not understand how people bag and throw these. I had a sinus (that i loved) that literally looked like it was thrown into a gator pond

I have a DX Aviar that's been in my bag for....uh. Idk. A long time. It's concave-ish now, but it's not warper and it still flies true.

 

[hurricaine]

I have a DX Aviar that's been in my bag for....uh. Idk. A long time. It's concave-ish now, but it's not warper and it still flies true.

exactly. Look at how long DX rocs last. Ive had a Nova ( i know its not DX) that has been in my bag for about 2 years and it only looks a little thrashed.

 

[ThomasOrion]

trilogy baseline literally warps and changes after a few hits. I do not understand how people bag and throw these. I had a sinus (that i loved) that literally looked like it was thrown into a gator pond

hmm idk if that's old or what - but any Baseline Trilogy I have is in great shape and I use them every round (FYI I don't really care for trilogy discs in general but I enjoy the putters and baselines a lot)

Im no fanboy - but the BT, Classic, Zero HARDs have never warped on me after years - mediums, same, some flex but no bubbling or warping and the 1 soft I have, well, that CANT warp its too soft.
So idk, maybe that was the old sinus with oldschool base trilogy, but the new stuff, all the bursts I have are great shape and BEST grip for sure . but most DG plastics are getting to the point of being ALL good and very similar. so, its all fine.

 

[wolfmandragon]

...

but most DG plastics are getting to the point of being ALL good and very similar. so, its all fine.

I sooooooo disagree with that. 5 years ago when I started playing, the quality of plastics, across the board, was so much higher.

I play with as much Discraft as I do, simply as they have about the only good premium plastic left.

 

[ILUVSMGS18]

trilogy plastic literally warps and changes after a few hits. I do not understand how people bag and throw these. I had a sinus (that i loved) that literally looked like it was thrown into a gator pond

FTFY. On a related note, I don't have a ton of Innova DX putter knowledge (no DX BB Aviars, and my Rhynos always seem to be in Pro or R-Pro, though I've had a few DX, but none in the last 2 years), but DX Rocs are the bomb. Just imagine if DC made JB (full production, and McBeth's version of it) and X Wasps again.

 

[hugheshilton]

Huh, what an odd hill to die on. "This baseline plastic is better than that one based on my own anecdotal experience, FIGHT ME!" Anyway, I keep waiting for more Firefly news to pop up, but I guess we're just entertaining ourselves with this argument until it does.

Fwiw (nothing), my own experience of Innova DX has been pretty good (mainly just Rocs and Thunderbirds though). Yeti Pro was pretty durable when I putted those, and my stiff Pro Pigs didn't warp even after 2 years of being in the bag and used regularly for upshots and short drives. XT on the other hand warped and got unusably understable ultra fast for me. I've had some very warped Colts and Rocs in XT. I've tried mids in Prime, SureGrip, and Pro D, all of which had pretty poor durability (warping, gouging, etc.). The Zero Hard and Medium Daggers I putt with have been pretty durable, although I only putt with them and have no experience of Zero/BT/Classic in throwers. Electron seemed to warp moderately quickly as well (I've used Vectors and Atoms) although not as quickly as Prime, SureGrip, and Pro D. I like Electron mostly; it just costs too much.

Anyway, the thing about plastic blends is that most of them change over time because of the difficulties in procuring the exact same blend over and over again. Even MVP, who seems to have a pretty sure source of plastics, seems to vary their blends over time (just based on me listening to MVP fans complain). Anyone saying that DX is all waxy crap is probably basing that opinion on 4+ year old DX; none of what I've handled recently was waxy at all. I think Innova gets picked on because they're the biggest and make the most discs and thus their blends change the most often. Any manufacturer would probably run into similar problems at that scale though.

 

[ThomasOrion]

I sooooooo disagree with that. 5 years ago when I started playing, the quality of plastics, across the board, was so much higher.

I play with as much Discraft as I do, simply as they have about the only good premium plastic left.

IDK I find that most premium plastics are all pretty damn good and are likely all VERY similar materials - Legacy Pinnacle is awesome, very similar to Opto or VIP --

What matters more to me is does the disc have a consistent shape or are some stupid bubble domey or have Sharp flashing underneath that feels awful? Quality of premium blends is REALLY good on most fronts - I love my pinnacle Outlaws, I like my Star Destroyer - same type of discs - both good in plastic - yeah to each their own for sure - but - quality premium plastic is all around for disc golf now


I agree some oldschool Champion Edition discs have a awesome feel and flight - same with oldschool ESP

 

[HERB brooks]

Huh, what an odd hill to die on. "This baseline plastic is better than that one based on my own anecdotal experience, FIGHT ME!" Anyway, I keep waiting for more Firefly news to pop up, but I guess we're just entertaining ourselves with this argument until it does.

I read Orion's comment as tongue in cheek. My bad for sending this thread off the rails. At least we're not in landfill territory yet.

 

[Streets]

About the only baseline I've been routinely pleased with is Gateway

 

[ThomasOrion]

Haha Ok Ok, didn't mean to go off the rails - Firefly should be good (looks like P2) and excited to see Nexus Plastic and how it will differ from Innova in the past (if at all) --- and yes Gateway does great baseline - they need to get out more

 

[Streets]

Well YOU were the ONE who wanted to FIGHT about different companies BASE plastics and said the INNOVA and DISCRAFT's was garbage all the while saying how TRILOGY's base plastic is great but many don't SHARE that view.

 

[DanJon]

I have a 15 year old DX Roc in my bag.

Flies great.

 

[VictorB]

Discraft D plastic is fine, especially for putters. In fact, most discs that were designed for baseline plastic, are fine in baseline plastic, no matter the company. Most people don't realize that the appearance of wear marks on a disc does NOT mean the disc is beating in and/or losing stability.

I think it's interesting that innova is cloning the P2, especially if they are parting with Discmania in terms of manufacturing partnership. Discmania has access to a lot of molding parts from Innova if they are moving to do their own discs.

 

[Horsman]

All Trilogy baseline - Too soft and too grippy, kinda feeling like rubber to me.
All Discraft baseline - Too soft and too grippy
Gateway baseline - After going thru dozens of discs you will be able to find exactly what you are looking for in feel
Innova baseline - KC has been the gold standard in my opinion since it came out. DX is great if you can find the stiffer/chalkier stuff not the waxy junk. JK and R-pro are junk
Prodigy Baseline - All too soft and too grippy. Their OG baseline was a KC knock off and that felt great but since then. Garbage.
Legacy baseline - Not sure what their names are but their soft stuff is junk and oddly enough their stiff and slick stuff is too slick and stiff. Its close to KC but not perfect.


To me, the best is Innova and the worst is Latitude. Discraft is finally starting to try again so we should see some good things out of that, just wish they didnt have all these ledgestone specific combos. Everyone has an opinion.