[Innova] For the love of the Bird! ..Teebird that is!

[klodkrawler05]

I just recently picked up a couple of the Barella TB3's also, I've been impatiently trying to work a star teebird into my straight to reliable fading finish disc rather than cycling dx teebirds, but it's just so much shorter than my other fairways I don't usually want to reach for it. Right out of the gate the TB3 is doing what I want. it still gives up some distance to my FD & Essence (duh) but it's not giving up nearly as much distance as the star teebird was. Immediately into the bag for me.

 

[oldmandiscer]

I just recently picked up a couple of the Barella TB3's also, I've been impatiently trying to work a star teebird into my straight to reliable fading finish disc rather than cycling dx teebirds, but it's just so much shorter than my other fairways I don't usually want to reach for it. Right out of the gate the TB3 is doing what I want. it still gives up some distance to my FD & Essence (duh) but it's not giving up nearly as much distance as the star teebird was. Immediately into the bag for me.

Hit the number plate from 325 with mine yesterday. Luckily it didn't do much of anything as far as damage goes. Been loving this disc!

 

[JeCroisQue]

I have a problem...lol. Played another 36 at my local after the 42 at Beaver.

About the Teebird...still think this is a rad disc, but what shocked me was how it flew in headwinds vs my Firebird. I was starting to think that my Teebird was a Firebird..but no way.

If anything, I'm more stoked about the disc...I didn't want that much overlap.

Specifics: hole 4 of local course is a 230' barely uphill wide open shot where the issues are terrain (big right to left slope going down) and often winds (micro-climate on the course creates oppressive headwind).

This hole is essentially an auto-birdie with a Firebird FH. Today threw FB jr., my Champ Teebird (FH). Big headwind.

Was surprised...even though it ended up fighting back through the wind, at first it went a little ass-up and gave up some ground to the left--flipped a touch and rode downhill--but it did fight back and end up on the edge of C1.

So what do we think--Champ Teebird a good disc for FH shots where you need Firebird/Destroyer-like overstability? Or more of a touch disc that you don't want to expose to the most brutal of elements on a FH?

Most Champ Teebirds I have thrown don't really overlap with a firebird unless the firebird is seasoned. Firebirds are hard to push past 300 ft, where a Teebird can push to 350 for me. Some of the most OS Champ Teebirds I have thrown are 17 Jen Allens, and they do overlap with my sextons when fresh. They are great FH discs and are amazing into a medium headwind. Anything over 15 mph I'll bust out the firebird though.

The beauty of the Champ Teebird is very resistant to HST and as it beats in it loses it's LSS before it gets beat in enough then starts turning. Because of this, it makes for an amazing FH disc for both beginners and pros. Has enough HSS to take some form issues and torque, but not enough to mask bad throws like a Firebird would. When thrown with good form it flies dead straight with a reliable fade even into mild headwinds.

I can't really speak to DX or Star Teebirds as I don't like them. For me the Teebird was meant to fly in champ plastic. DX Teebirds get beat in too fast and are squirrelly after a 2-3 tree hits. Stars have too much variation OOTB. They are either absolute beefcakes or relatively neutral.

Not sure I would be throwing a Teebird or firebird on a 230 ft hole, but at that arm speed I could see them overlapping.

 

[twistedraven]

I keep hearing Teebird advocates say they lose their fade before they start turning. It would be truly amazing if there was such a thing is a turn resistant fairway that didn't fade much at all, but I haven't come across one. Probably the closest thing would be hyzerflipping flippy stuff so their fade pushes forward.

All teebirds I've used have shown turn when beat in. They go from like 0/2 to -1/1.

 

[JeCroisQue]

I keep hearing Teebird advocates say they lose their fade before they start turning. It would be truly amazing if there was such a thing is a turn resistant fairway that didn't fade much at all, but I haven't come across one. Probably the closest thing would be hyzerflipping flippy stuff so their fade pushes forward.

All teebirds I've used have shown turn when beat in. They go from like 0/2 to -1/1.

What type of Teebirds do you throw? The Champs I have (disclaimer: they are almost all PFN or older 11/12x's) typically start off pretty beefy, more like a 0/2.5 then get to a 0/1, you can see turn here into wind or if you have a lot of arm speed, after that they start to develop a consistent turn.

I would say, if you are throwing 400+ with them you might see turn earlier in the wear stage so it is all relative. For my 350 arm they do not really turn unless they are well beaten in.

 

[hawgdriver]

I now have 3 Teebirds--well, the same two Teebirds (175g champ, 168g star) and 1 champ Teebird3 (175g) that seems exactly like the other two, more or less.

They are neat discs. While they are different, they are so much the same. I think I like the 168g in star the best. I threw it today in some mild winds from different directions and like what it did. It has a very comfortable feel to it.

I'm not sure when to lean into the Teebird3.

I've thrown the champ Teebird quite a bit since last post and I've noticed that it doesn't skip on a mild-hyzer FH when I might expect a wider rim to skip. This happened a few times during a round--enough to make me believe it is a disc characteristic. A 10+ speed rim, even a FB rim, would have skipped through impact, but the champ Teebird just bit and sat. I expect that ground play so it wasn't quite the birdie look I hoped for.

On FH I'm reluctant to throw the 168g star--feel like I'll flip it on accident. The champ and champ T3 are both fine but require more finesse than my Corvette or Destroyer. Even when I think I'm sending the teebird off wings-level, it often banks left to start. It will fight through it almost immediately, but the intuitive touch needs more practice. It's a disc I actively like on FH, well except for the rim-shovel effect above, but at the same time I'm thinking it might be wise to just lean into other discs for FH--maybe keep it Hex/Pyro/Corvette/Destroyer/Panic (?)/Draco. Those discs excel at FH for me.

otoh, discing-down has been valuable to my overall game, so I'm fine adapting to these Teebirds.

 

[twistedraven]

What type of Teebirds do you throw? The Champs I have (disclaimer: they are almost all PFN or older 11/12x's) typically start off pretty beefy, more like a 0/2.5 then get to a 0/1, you can see turn here into wind or if you have a lot of arm speed, after that they start to develop a consistent turn.

I would say, if you are throwing 400+ with them you might see turn earlier in the wear stage so it is all relative. For my 350 arm they do not really turn unless they are well beaten in.

Barela color glow Teebird3s, 12x champ Teebird, '19 Jenifer Allen color glow, Avery Jenkins star. I also have a very much pop-top sfo stamped Teebird that had slight drift out of the box-- kinda neat. The Barela color glows are ideal for what I want a Teebird to be. The Avery Jenkins star and '19 JA color glow were beefy out of the box.

 

[JeCroisQue]

Barela color glow Teebird3s, 12x champ Teebird, '19 Jenifer Allen color glow, Avery Jenkins star. I also have a very much pop-top sfo stamped Teebird that had slight drift out of the box-- kinda neat. The Barela color glows are ideal for what I want a Teebird to be. The Avery Jenkins star and '19 JA color glow were beefy out of the box.

Can't speak to barelas or TB3s for that matter.

I haven't thrown the 19 Allen's, but if they are anything like the 17 Allen's they should be very beefy, possibly more than the Avery stars but not quite as much as my Brinsters. The Avery stars are pretty darn overstable in my experience and I was not a fan, felt like they were pretty glideless. Surprised your getting turn out of the Allens or the 12x. All of mine fly dead straight when seasoned, and the Allen's take a long time to get there, still waiting to get one to turn over without a decent headwind. I have 12x that are pushing 7 years in my bag that still fly straight when thrown flat or slight hyzer. Not a headwind disc by any means, but they do resist turn more than any other neutral fairway mold I have tried.

 

[twistedraven]

Altitude might play a factor as well. I'm only 700 feet above sea level. I'm not saying they're easy turners by any means, but when beat they exhibit some rightward drift followed by a small and dependable fade.

 

[elmexdela]

I keep hearing Teebird advocates say they lose their fade before they start turning. It would be truly amazing if there was such a thing is a turn resistant fairway that didn't fade much at all, but I haven't come across one. Probably the closest thing would be hyzerflipping flippy stuff so their fade pushes forward.

All teebirds I've used have shown turn when beat in. They go from like 0/2 to -1/1.

closest thing ive found to this dream disc is opto saint

sfd is a runner up

 

[elmexdela]

Altitude might play a factor as well. I'm only 700 feet above sea level. I'm not saying they're easy turners by any means, but when beat they exhibit some rightward drift followed by a small and dependable fade.

close enough

 

[oldmandiscer]

Then you have nose angle, amount of spin, disc speed, temperature, and OAT. All these variables will effect turn and fade.

I think when people say TB's lose their fade but maintain HSS they are seeing that in flight. Where a TB might really start 0/2.5 for them then they see it more like 0/2 or 0/1 they simply are not throwing it fast enough to get the turn, it loses both but in the real world testing they just see the fade lessen.

I know for myself I had a beat star TB that would fly really straight for me (330-340 ft). But if I had Eagle McMahon throw it, I don't think so. Pretty sure it would be a roller / hyzer flipper simply because he throws 20 miles an hour faster.

 

[twistedraven]

I have also seen beat Firebirds and Felons and FD3s exhibit turn and fade. A friend's beat Explorer also has turn and fade. I don't think there's a magical disc out there that will maintain HSS and have no fade when beat to hell. There's no magical disc that can soak up as much release velocity as possible with no turn whatsoever, then at the same time lose all of its fade and just not fade at all. I can see people saying a really beefy run of Teebird that starts out like a 0/3 will eventually beat in to like a 0/2, but the ones I've experienced that fly true to Teebird numbers will eventually beat in to what a TL or TL3 is-- where it has equal parts of turn and fade.

Pros do throw faster, but with the backhand, spin rate is very much related to release velocity, and the faster spinning disc will always stay more stable in its flight (stable in that it is less prone to high speed turn and low speed fade).

 

[JeCroisQue]

Then you have nose angle, amount of spin, disc speed, temperature, and OAT. All these variables will effect turn and fade.

I think when people say TB's lose their fade but maintain HSS they are seeing that in flight. Where a TB might really start 0/2.5 for them then they see it more like 0/2 or 0/1 they simply are not throwing it fast enough to get the turn, it loses both but in the real world testing they just see the fade lessen.

I know for myself I had a beat star TB that would fly really straight for me (330-340 ft). But if I had Eagle McMahon throw it, I don't think so. Pretty sure it would be a roller / hyzer flipper simply because he throws 20 miles an hour faster.

Exactly this. The flight of any disc is relative. It flies like that for my arm speed. If you throw harder or have more OAT it will probably show turn for you. If you throw nose up or have less arm speed it will fade out much harder.

Even so, for an 0/2 disc they are very HSS and do resist HST even with some wear.

 

[autocrosscrx]

I keep hearing Teebird advocates say they lose their fade before they start turning. It would be truly amazing if there was such a thing is a turn resistant fairway that didn't fade much at all, but I haven't come across one. Probably the closest thing would be hyzerflipping flippy stuff so their fade pushes forward.

All teebirds I've used have shown turn when beat in. They go from like 0/2 to -1/1.

I say this, but my default release is also hyzer. So they flip up to flat and go straight. If I were throwing these flat, they'd definitely turn.

 

[elmexdela]

I have also seen beat Firebirds and Felons and FD3s exhibit turn and fade. A friend's beat Explorer also has turn and fade. I don't think there's a magical disc out there that will maintain HSS and have no fade when beat to hell. There's no magical disc that can soak up as much release velocity as possible with no turn whatsoever, then at the same time lose all of its fade and just not fade at all. I can see people saying a really beefy run of Teebird that starts out like a 0/3 will eventually beat in to like a 0/2, but the ones I've experienced that fly true to Teebird numbers will eventually beat in to what a TL or TL3 is-- where it has equal parts of turn and fade.

Pros do throw faster, but with the backhand, spin rate is very much related to release velocity, and the faster spinning disc will always stay more stable in its flight (stable in that it is less prone to high speed turn and low speed fade).

the old ppd might be close to perfecting that

 

[Kenny53691]

The Barela color glows are ideal for what I want a Teebird to be.

I currently bag a star Teebird3, so how does the Barela glow champ TB3's compare to the star TB3's?

 

[Moose33]

Pros do throw faster, but with the backhand, spin rate is very much related to release velocity, and the faster spinning disc will always stay more stable in its flight (stable in that it is less prone to high speed turn and low speed fade).

There is something to that. I throw faster on average than most players backhand, but don't think I spin the disc as much.

So I get more turn, more fade and similar distance to someone who throws the same disc more spin heavy.

So my Teebird shots throw more like people describe an Eagle with often a -1 or 1.5 turn and still a 2 or 3 fade.

 

[hawgdriver]

I lean into my 175g Champ Teebird. I had several throws today that made me love it even more, began to think 'this is a perfect disc, for what you need from it'.

Then I threw it and it flipped a bit. Wind, major wind. Still took a 3, but man I thought it was a terrific throw. It was. Maybe just wild winds--it was Kansas type gusty stuff.

Teebird advocates: talk to me about the perils of the Teebird and wind. When has your Teebird 'betrayed' you?

 

[twistedraven]

My barela teebird 3s definitely aren't wind beaters. They'll fight winds up to 5-8mph well enough, but anything beyond that and I lean into my color glow FD3. Headwinds are so ruthless on discs because they make the disc 'faster' without adding spin-rate to its flight. Instead of my teebird3 going 300 and slight fade to the basket, it turned over past a group of trees to the right, and went ob long 350. After a botched scramble shot from just past the trees where it went ob, and a 3 putt on a sloped green, I ended up taking a 6.