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Eagle's layback on his sidearm is crazy. I came across this video which really goes in depth in explaining how it happens and what's import to the MLB pitchers. It's a little long but a ton of information.
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Forehand Tutorial: How to Properly Lead with the Elbow
- Thread starter sidewinder22
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Flashblastx
Par Member
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I have been throwing forehand for probably about 20 years all together, playing on and off many times. I have a pretty good forehand I might say and I can throw it pretty far.
But... I have been strong arming this whole time, this is nuts. I'm so excited to try this out it feels so good just practicing and so smooth and my wrist pronates just as you said when I have a relaxed arm.
It's hilarious how similar backhand and forehand and putting all are to each other... so simple to understand but yet not..
Just to clarify for a swim move on a forehand it's kind of like you rotate into it with your shoulders and then your left arm should be tucking back into your core propelling/leveraging your unit forward? Because it is indeed the axis you're rotating around and you have to halt that shoulder? Think I'm feeling it right but just want to check.
It's crazy how you can think you know a lot about a throw and not even understand the actual feel whatsoever. This is going to save my shoulder big time.
But... I have been strong arming this whole time, this is nuts. I'm so excited to try this out it feels so good just practicing and so smooth and my wrist pronates just as you said when I have a relaxed arm.
It's hilarious how similar backhand and forehand and putting all are to each other... so simple to understand but yet not..
Just to clarify for a swim move on a forehand it's kind of like you rotate into it with your shoulders and then your left arm should be tucking back into your core propelling/leveraging your unit forward? Because it is indeed the axis you're rotating around and you have to halt that shoulder? Think I'm feeling it right but just want to check.
It's crazy how you can think you know a lot about a throw and not even understand the actual feel whatsoever. This is going to save my shoulder big time.
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As a Senators fan from way back (but not that way back), love the Walter Johnson clips.
I have a functional but not particularly powerful sidearm. I use it frequently for approaches and scrambles inside 200' or so, mostly with putters or midranges. Occasionally I'll sidearm a driver, usually on downhill holes.
A few years ago I could sidearm out to 270' pretty consistently but my technique was bad and creaky old joints complained. Sidearm was put on the sidelines for a few years.
Now I have to lean over and keep my arm slot lower than Walter Johnson to avoid aggravating an old water polo injury (probably tore my rotator cuff years ago). Basically relaxing through the throw until a hard wrist-and-finger pop at the end. So far my creaky shoulder hasn't complained too much, although I limit the number of hard sidearms in a round.
Recently I have been working on getting my elbow out front of my arm, which seems to yield more power. Tossing putters in the yard I have been able to get sidearms pretty close to my backhand distance, which is encouraging.
One quirk is that the elbow-forward throws seem to come out at a lower angle. I have had some unintended but remarkably long sidearm skip shots lol. I also have to be much more careful about my wrist angle to avoid OATing the bejesus out of putter sidearms.
Ah well, maybe weather and work schedule will cooperate and I'll be able to get out and practice this more than once a week.
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Sounds about right. Feels like I'm pulling myself forward in FH with the arm tucking into flexion, while backhand is pushing myself forward with the lower arm extension.
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SW I know you have videos showing the rhythm and sequencing for the FH but would the Level 2 and Level 3 Rhythm Rocker drills be good as well? It's a little disappointing that he mentions rotating instead of driving into the plant.
Level 2 starts here:
https://youtu.be/U__OwPjuKMQ?t=255
Level 2 starts here:
https://youtu.be/U__OwPjuKMQ?t=255
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Yeah, my FH SS is basically the figure 8 rocker with more submarine/sidearm delivery rather than 3/4 over top unless it's a roller or steep anhyzer. The rotation is more slightly uphill or underneath / tilted spiral, rather than downhill/over top like he talks about which I guess works for the 3/4. He does talk about the heel/s coming up to release rotation, so that part I agree with, his demo might be hard to decipher the difference. Either way as soon as my rear foot starts to spin, leverage is toast and start going over the top.
The level 1 with rear foot pointed at target feels so wrong/restricted, guess I have poor internal rotation, that is also the hip I dislocated. Pretty sure he is more IR dominant.
Do you recommend a more uphill or downhill swing? Kinda ran into that today while tossing some hammers. I could come over the top and downhill and throw a nice anhyzer, but on a hyzer/flat angle it was easier to throw with an uphill motion, almost like kicking a ball but right leg countered below and my arm swung instead of leg. Is one more powerful than others? It looks like most pitchers, even throwing sidearm/submarine delivery still come over the top, just altering the angle (and usually popping to the throwing side during recoil) vs a softball pitcher which has a more down to up motion.
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Anhyzer has more natural leverage FH coming over the top. Hyzer is more underneath. Hard to get the same velocity on submarine/hyzer, but shouldn't be a huge difference.
Anhyzer has more natural leverage FH coming over the top. Hyzer is more underneath. Hard to get the same velocity on submarine/hyzer, but shouldn't be a huge difference.
This is probebly what i struggle with turning discs over. My wrist is comming over elbow alot even when tilting my body in a hyzer position. Could backswing be the villain? noticed lots of players start swinging from having the disc in anhyzer with wrist above then during the swing is comming underneath. I kinda start underneath in hyzer angle and have to tilting the wrist down to force it flat. Have also watched Sara Hokom starting way underneath and it seems to work really good even if its looks weard. Any thoughts/advice?
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Hard to speculate without video. I don't think it makes much difference if you windmill or pendulum the backswing as long as you end up getting loaded.
I suspect it is more to do with your arm maybe doing more of a chop movement than a pull through. I do a windmill as run up, simple left, right (cock and reach back), left (pull through and snap the wrist).
Also tipping over to the side I think is a bit of a one dimensional analogy, I would say it is maybe more of a crunch that is at the same time being rotated. look at good pitchers, they open up the thorasic in the reach back with a slight rotation, then they pull together the core while rotating with the hips.
Also tipping over to the side I think is a bit of a one dimensional analogy, I would say it is maybe more of a crunch that is at the same time being rotated. look at good pitchers, they open up the thorasic in the reach back with a slight rotation, then they pull together the core while rotating with the hips.
Hm chop movement or pull through? explain more please. I dont chop flick the disc with palm up if thats what you mean. But its something with the forearm that wants to rise and release it higher. I can see in both gifs above that the pitcher and sw22 is releasing kinda low waist line. Maybe i need to work on the hit more in that height level.
For me it is all the difference and for me it stemed mostly from never extending the arm properly in the reach back. I am guessing that when the arm is not fully extended you cant really get the "heavy disc" feel since you dont give it enough "slack".
A clip from late august, notice that the arm is quite extended up until the elbow passes the hip and starts leading the arm, I think this is were the magic happens. An outstretched arm can cock back and load, an already bent arm (chop) can not cock anymore so you can create lag. Bending the arm as the elbow moves forward is the lag spot and all the power, I can see my elbow move maybe 20-30cm but the disc is still in the same spot. So this means that the elbow automatically has to be away from the body and then you pull it towards the hips/core as you are passing the hips with the swing/rotation of the upperbody and sling the arm front and left abit.
In short the elbow moves alot more diagonal, outside and in than just in a straight line.
Hope this helps!
https://youtu.be/F8R2fxTOTLg
In short the elbow moves alot more diagonal, outside and in than just in a straight line.
Hope this helps!
https://youtu.be/F8R2fxTOTLg
Do you mean its extended as in elbow is open? Ye i know that its where the magic happen by having that lag but i guess i just have been doing it wrong. Your elbow swing looks diffrent then mine, it feels weard trying to do it like that. But i will try to extend my arm more and bend it when elbow moves forward. The diagonal move sounds intresting out to in, so you are saying that the elbow moves from kinda southeast position if target is a north then moving in a line to north west? my elbow just moves from having it out and a bit away forward to target but still in line having it kinda out. Thanks for the vid! / Tack
What I have felt is that the more open I can keep my elbow/arm extended while also away from the body the slower I can come through but still generate the same lag/release speed and this has really made it so much more effortless to get the same distance. I think what happens to many people is that the elbow moves more travels more like a standing V rather than layed down V.
Everybody I have shown this to has also said it felt weird at first and I suppose that was why I had such a big aha moment when I figured it out, quite litterally I doubled my forehand in one throw and at the same time it was maybe 20% of the perceived effort.
Yes south east to north west is a good description but since you also rotate the upper body compared to the target direction the movement isnt so much but both parts are key to be able to move the arm so that the elbow can lead.
Everybody I have shown this to has also said it felt weird at first and I suppose that was why I had such a big aha moment when I figured it out, quite litterally I doubled my forehand in one throw and at the same time it was maybe 20% of the perceived effort.
Yes south east to north west is a good description but since you also rotate the upper body compared to the target direction the movement isnt so much but both parts are key to be able to move the arm so that the elbow can lead.
timothy42b
Eagle Member
Video of both the upward swing and the downward swing show pronation after the release. Some of the instruction says stay palm up but that must be wrong.
Correct. Pronating after release protects your arm.
I know when I throw a good forehand (once in a blue moon) it "feels" like I keep my palm up, but that's just a mental trick that keeps my swing plane correct, and my arm pronates after release. Always remember; feel ain't real!
