Golf Disc Durability Testing Video

[zenbot]

One impression I gathered by dissenting remarks in the thread was that the concrete wall video was the only measure that Steve used to test durability in his product. You stated that this claim did not occur. I promptly cited a passage that led me to that assumption.

I'm clearly not qualified to offer my opinion on the matter as I'm not very good with words and stuff so I'll leave you here.


*edit*

I'll still be hitting you up for a Vegas round next time I'm on business at which point you can teach me everything I need to know about having a fallacy-free discussion on a disc golf forum. I look forward to your teachings.

 

[skurf]

A problem I have with this comparison is that all of these putters you're comparing are half the price (or less) of the Vibram putter you're comparing it against. I think a more fair comparison would be against something like a FLX Challenger, CryZtal Challenger, Star Aviar and so on.

Also, you make it sound like hitting a tree directly in front of you perfectly square at full force is something that happens on a regular occurrence. This has happened once to me when I was using a base plastic Aviar and it did slightly warp it, however with a little shaping I was able to get it back to its normal flatness. Nowadays, if I'm driving off the tee with a putter I'm using a CryZtal Challenger, but have yet to hit a tree perfectly square with it at short range, although I doubt it would do any permanent damage.

If you're driving with a putter, I agree it is probably a better idea to use something more durable. Usually durability comes at a higher price tag such as with the Vibram discs and as it does with the higher end plastics for Aviars, Challengers, etc., which in my opinion is what the Vibram discs should have been compared against. However, I suppose that wouldn't have made for a very good marketing video.

 

[chiefcastor]

A problem I have with this comparison is that all of these putters you're comparing are half the price (or less) of the Vibram putter you're comparing it against. I think a more fair comparison would be against something like a FLX Challenger, CryZtal Challenger, Star Aviar and so on.

Also, you make it sound like hitting a tree directly in front of you perfectly square at full force is something that happens on a regular occurrence. This has happened once to me when I was using a base plastic Aviar and it did slightly warp it, however with a little shaping I was able to get it back to its normal flatness. Nowadays, if I'm driving off the tee with a putter I'm using a CryZtal Challenger, but have yet to hit a tree perfectly square with it at short range, although I doubt it would do any permanent damage.

If you're driving with a putter, I agree it is probably a better idea to use something more durable. Usually durability comes at a higher price tag such as with the Vibram discs and as it does with the higher end plastics for Aviars, Challengers, etc., which in my opinion is what the Vibram discs should have been compared against. However, I suppose that wouldn't have made for a very good marketing video.

I just finished the testing with a Champion, Star, ESP, SSS and X-Link disc. Threw each one of them 20 times skip shot into the road and skipping into a brick wall. X-Link wins again. I'll post the YouTube video later this week.

Mr. Dodge already addressed this issue. I, for one, am interested to see the new video.

 

[hewittdallas]

I just finished the testing with a Champion, Star, ESP, SSS and X-Link disc. Threw each one of them 20 times skip shot into the road and skipping into a brick wall. X-Link wins again. I'll post the YouTube video later this week.

It is hard to see the significant knicks in the Champion, Star and ESP, but everyone that I have given them to has said the X-Link is barely scuffed at all and each of the others have knicks that would give a thrower pause. The SSS Wizard was not exactly circular after the third throw.

Was the SSS plastic expected to hold up to this challenge? This sort of seems like comparing apples and oranges to me. I throw an SSS Wizard and I definitely don't reach for that disc because it is durable, but because it flies well and catches chains.

I would be interested to see this video though.

 

[skurf]

Mr. Dodge already addressed this issue. I, for one, am interested to see the new video.

Missed that post, although no FLX or CryZtal seemed to be tested. I can't imagine anything warping my CryZtal Challenger. Personally, I have never had a problem gripping any type of plastic when dry, although I could see this Vibram disc having an advantage in rain if it keeps its grip.

 

[atl scott]

One impression I gathered by dissenting remarks in the thread was that the concrete wall video was the only measure that Steve used to test durability in his product.

That's not what I was trying to say at all. My stance was that the video itself was pointless and silly, and that they shouldn't need to use this style of data to try and make their point when they ought to (and probably do) have perfectly good actual disc golf data.

 

[NWcityguy2]

Thats fine. Saturday league @ Sunset starts at 8am with Singles then the next round is doubles. Shoot my a PM before you come because I go up to Utah some weekends to visit family.

 

[zenbot]

Thats fine. Saturday league @ Sunset starts at 8am with Singles then the next round is doubles. Shoot my a PM before you come because I go up to Utah some weekends to visit family.

Is there anything mid-week? I usually will go out for either a day or Mon-Fri. Our company is really close to Sunset Park. (171 and 215)

 

[phish3460]

This reminds me of the pillow commercial where they drop barbells down canisters with pillow stuffings atop eggs. Thank whomever that that pillow stuffing saved those defenseless eggs.

Even third graders doing science fair projects could tell you this isn't real, valid, reliable evidence.

 

[zenbot]

This reminds me of the pillow commercial where they drop barbells down canisters with pillow stuffings atop eggs. Thank whomever that that pillow stuffing saved those defenseless eggs.

Even third graders doing science fair projects could tell you this isn't real, valid, reliable evidence.

They still fund science in elementary school? I thought science went out with the arts.

 

[NWcityguy2]

Is there anything mid-week? I usually will go out for either a day or Mon-Fri. Our company is really close to Sunset Park. (171 and 215)

All league info is here http://www.lvbagtag.com/

I only got to Sunset on Sat. and Mountain Crest on Thurs (every other month) because that is all my schedule permits.

 

[StevenDodge]

A problem I have with this comparison is that all of these putters you're comparing are half the price (or less) of the Vibram putter you're comparing it against. I think a more fair comparison would be against something like a FLX Challenger, CryZtal Challenger, Star Aviar and so on.

Also, you make it sound like hitting a tree directly in front of you perfectly square at full force is something that happens on a regular occurrence. This has happened once to me when I was using a base plastic Aviar and it did slightly warp it, however with a little shaping I was able to get it back to its normal flatness. Nowadays, if I'm driving off the tee with a putter I'm using a CryZtal Challenger, but have yet to hit a tree perfectly square with it at short range, although I doubt it would do any permanent damage.

If you're driving with a putter, I agree it is probably a better idea to use something more durable. Usually durability comes at a higher price tag such as with the Vibram discs and as it does with the higher end plastics for Aviars, Challengers, etc., which in my opinion is what the Vibram discs should have been compared against. However, I suppose that wouldn't have made for a very good marketing video.

I agree that hitting a tree square is a relatively rare occurrence. The goal of this test is to determine relative durability of the discs. Baseline discs wear out, we all know that. Baseline discs cost less than Vibram discs, we all know that. What I would like people to also know is that whereas a baseline disc may last a season or even two, the Vibram discs will last much longer and will, in the long run, save you money. (They will also save on materials since they don't need to be replaced as often, and they will also save you strokes, as the way you figure out that a disc needs to be replaced is when it just won't fly right anymore.)

I conducted the test recommended above on Tuesday (and included a skip off the road in front of a brick wall). All of the discs held up well after my 20 throws, although the ESP, Champion and Star discs all have more scuffs and gouges than the X-Link, but it did not (in my opinion) affect the flight in any significant way.

I am editing the video as I type (rendering the files, really).

One note, the reason that I compared against baseline plastic discs in the first video is because they have comparable grip to X-Link. ESP, Champion, Star and Z have comparable durability, but lack the grip, especially in inclement weather.

Keep the good ideas coming.

 

[StevenDodge]

This reminds me of the pillow commercial where they drop barbells down canisters with pillow stuffings atop eggs. Thank whomever that that pillow stuffing saved those defenseless eggs.

Even third graders doing science fair projects could tell you this isn't real, valid, reliable evidence.

I remember that egg video. Didn't they break some eggs with other pillow stuffings? Those poor eggs! And those poor pillow covers! Eggs are tough to clean out of stuff.

Regarding the "isn't real, valid, evidence" comment, are you arguing that the video does not demonstrate that rubber based X-Link is more durable than baseline plastic discs? And if you are able to support this contention (and I may be missing something, so please let me know), then I would ask you to design a test that I can conduct and film, I'll be happy to give it a go. I suspect I know which disc will do better.

 

[elnino]

vps are stable and bulletproof. I would like some data on how the rubber discs do in grabbing the chains....I aced with a vp and the disc was coming in really hot but the rubber firm just stopped and dropped in....i ve hit baskets too hard several times with champ drivers and they are tough to stay in if they are thrown on a rope....some kinda data like that would be awesome....

the feel of soft pro rhyno with the durability and better chain grabbing!

thanks for the effort i like the idea but maybe start a thread asking for better tests of durability and change in flight....

I would love to develop a grab the chains test or have some silly great putter test them for you and compare the number of spit outs adn whatnot

 

[StevenDodge]

vps are stable and bulletproof. I would like some data on how the rubber discs do in grabbing the chains....I aced with a vp and the disc was coming in really hot but the rubber firm just stopped and dropped in....i ve hit baskets too hard several times with champ drivers and they are tough to stay in if they are thrown on a rope....some kinda data like that would be awesome....

the feel of soft pro rhyno with the durability and better chain grabbing!

thanks for the effort i like the idea but maybe start a thread asking for better tests of durability and change in flight....

I would love to develop a grab the chains test or have some silly great putter test them for you and compare the number of spit outs adn whatnot

Hmmm ...

 

[Three Putt]

One note, the reason that I compared against baseline plastic discs in the first video is because they have comparable grip to X-Link. ESP, Champion, Star and Z have comparable durability, but lack the grip, especially in inclement weather.

This would be the point I'd hammer away at. I for one would never be caught dead trying to execute a putt or tight approach shot with a Z or Champ or E disc becasue of the complete lack of grip those discs have. If X-Link truly is comparable in durability to those with the grip of a base plastic, that would be news.

It's hard to show good grip on YouTube, though.

 

[zenbot]

This would be the point I'd hammer away at. I for one would never be caught dead trying to execute a putt or tight approach shot with a Z or Champ or E disc becasue of the complete lack of grip those discs have. If X-Link truly is comparable in durability to those with the grip of a base plastic, that would be news.

It's hard to show good grip on YouTube, though.

I tried. They still be hatin'. It's so sad how they always be hatin'.

 

[justin]

I would love to develop a grab the chains test or have some silly great putter test them for you and compare the number of spit outs adn whatnot

Steve, I think what this is asking for is to show how much rebound a disc has. One of the reasons I love driving tight fairways with my VP or Ridge is that errant throws that hit trees just die and don't richochet far. I think the "grab the chains" idea is insane. Soft discs absorb impacts and drop while hard ones cannot so they ricochet.

I enjoyed your video and applaud you for using youtube so effectively. Don't beat yourself up over people not appreciating the time you're taking to promote the product.

 

[phish3460]

I remember that egg video. Didn't they break some eggs with other pillow stuffings? Those poor eggs! And those poor pillow covers! Eggs are tough to clean out of stuff.

Regarding the "isn't real, valid, evidence" comment, are you arguing that the video does not demonstrate that rubber based X-Link is more durable than baseline plastic discs? And if you are able to support this contention (and I may be missing something, so please let me know), then I would ask you to design a test that I can conduct and film, I'll be happy to give it a go. I suspect I know which disc will do better.

While I'm sure the X-Link actually does hold up better than the discs you show in the video, my point was more of a pretentious one - if you will. When you take out randomization, introduce a very fallible human element, and record it on your own video camera, validity then becomes lost. Just a simple implementation of the scientific method.

 

[alexrd35]

This is why I use SS Wizards for putting and M wizards for drive and approach. Cool test anyway.