Steal Your Face
Newbie
Thanks all for the help. I really appreciate it.
-
Discover new ways to elevate your game with the updated DGCourseReview app!
It's entirely free and enhanced with features shaped by user feedback to ensure your best experience on the course. (App Store or Google Play)
Help a beginner out please.
- Thread starter Steal Your Face
- Start date
djjeremiahj
Double Eagle Member
...
my premise is based on the fact the beginning player isnt trying to be competitive. They are just trying to learn and catch up.
you guys are trying to teach the guy how to be a pro player, and all i am trying to do is give him a good time. struggling isnt a good time.
Most people who play are only part time players and really dont care about "mastering" the game. As a result, the advice you should give them GREATLY differs from someone being competative. Until a player gets good enough to understand another competitive level, they are still a "part time player" trying to get a disc "as far as possible".
Would you guys really recommend (to a new person) to kill their distance by 1/3 to 1/2 just for the sake of technique? No... you'd probably say, rip it and have a good time. If you cant throw anything past 300' it really doesnt matter what you throw with; you dont have the throwing capacity to really make a difference. For a young arm, YES a wild wraith @ 300' always trumps a "perfect" teebird @ 260'. That 40' means a completely different shot for them.
Everyone expects everyone else to be a "student of the game"......
when, in fact, most arent.... as a result, the "advice" is different.
my premise is based on the fact the beginning player isnt trying to be competitive. They are just trying to learn and catch up.
you guys are trying to teach the guy how to be a pro player, and all i am trying to do is give him a good time. struggling isnt a good time.
Most people who play are only part time players and really dont care about "mastering" the game. As a result, the advice you should give them GREATLY differs from someone being competative. Until a player gets good enough to understand another competitive level, they are still a "part time player" trying to get a disc "as far as possible".
Would you guys really recommend (to a new person) to kill their distance by 1/3 to 1/2 just for the sake of technique? No... you'd probably say, rip it and have a good time. If you cant throw anything past 300' it really doesnt matter what you throw with; you dont have the throwing capacity to really make a difference. For a young arm, YES a wild wraith @ 300' always trumps a "perfect" teebird @ 260'. That 40' means a completely different shot for them.
Everyone expects everyone else to be a "student of the game"......
when, in fact, most arent.... as a result, the "advice" is different.
- Joined
- Jun 8, 2009
- Messages
- 2,692
i don't see how learning to throw properly is "struggling." learning good technique will equate to faster results than the "instant" 50' you might get with a distance driver. you might throw 275 instead of 225 but you'll still be throwing 275 months later cuz your technique still sucks. versus the guy that sticks with his leopard until he can throw it 300'+, which shouldn't take that long. then he'll be able to bomb a distance driver when he gets there.
being a beginner means not being as good as your buddies. but which way is going to get you better results?
djjeremiahj
Double Eagle Member
...
if 75% of the new players out there arent going to be competitive, then the "proper technique" argument doesnt apply to most throwers.
If a player doesnt practice every day, and only plays 1 time per month, the "proper technique" argument doesnt apply.
Rather than instill "regimentation"... why not give the guy enough of a satisfying experience that he wants to play more..... In the beginning, almost anyone will take the "easy route" if it means more "satisfying" results.
Until proven otherwise, any new player is in the 75% rule and 1 time a month club. Whats the worst thing that happens, if he does play enough, the first driver he learns to control is a driver... The "proper technique" argument is based solely upon miss-throws...
Let's give a player 4-6 months of playing before we start to "groom" them for the next PDGA championship. By then, they can make the conscious decision on what they want to do to their game (assuming they are still playing, and play enough to want to be competitive.) Until then, let's help them have a good time, show then the tricks to maximize their experience ("instant distance"), enjoy the sport and hopefully promote good will all around.
wow, some people think this is like little league or something. step back from the serious tip and realize that not everyone plays competitive; most play just to play. Until proven otherwise, any new player isnt going to be competitive; it takes atleast a year to be good enough to think about it.
if 75% of the new players out there arent going to be competitive, then the "proper technique" argument doesnt apply to most throwers.
If a player doesnt practice every day, and only plays 1 time per month, the "proper technique" argument doesnt apply.
Rather than instill "regimentation"... why not give the guy enough of a satisfying experience that he wants to play more..... In the beginning, almost anyone will take the "easy route" if it means more "satisfying" results.
Until proven otherwise, any new player is in the 75% rule and 1 time a month club. Whats the worst thing that happens, if he does play enough, the first driver he learns to control is a driver... The "proper technique" argument is based solely upon miss-throws...
Let's give a player 4-6 months of playing before we start to "groom" them for the next PDGA championship. By then, they can make the conscious decision on what they want to do to their game (assuming they are still playing, and play enough to want to be competitive.) Until then, let's help them have a good time, show then the tricks to maximize their experience ("instant distance"), enjoy the sport and hopefully promote good will all around.
wow, some people think this is like little league or something. step back from the serious tip and realize that not everyone plays competitive; most play just to play. Until proven otherwise, any new player isnt going to be competitive; it takes atleast a year to be good enough to think about it.
1. Brother Dave was spot on IMO of what to trade/keep
2. No sense in a buzzz (and I only throw discraft), mako should go straight so use that roc when you need more fade (hook)
3. I think Miah is just underestimating a putters distance capability. I won't even talk of mids.
My brother has played less than a dozen times. A wraith was his favorite disc until I started driving with my magnet. He couldn't beleive how it flew over 250 with such little energy needed. I told him how accurate they are and how they bounce less off trees, making it easier for a less skilled player to keep up. He now drives with a magnet and is actually starting to like dg
2. No sense in a buzzz (and I only throw discraft), mako should go straight so use that roc when you need more fade (hook)
3. I think Miah is just underestimating a putters distance capability. I won't even talk of mids.
My brother has played less than a dozen times. A wraith was his favorite disc until I started driving with my magnet. He couldn't beleive how it flew over 250 with such little energy needed. I told him how accurate they are and how they bounce less off trees, making it easier for a less skilled player to keep up. He now drives with a magnet and is actually starting to like dg
1. Thank you very much sir.
2. If your DX Roc is very well beat in it might overlap your Mako, hence I suggest a midrange for holes that require a good hyzer. Heavy Buzzz, Nebula, Wasp, Core, Cro, or a new Roc would be a great complement to the Mako.
everybody wants primo plastic... i won't buy dx cause i'm stubborn too
every noob wants drivers... even if its wrong to do...
with that being said...
pick up a z buzzz , champ roadrunner 170ish, star teebird 165-170, z predator, keep the mako and aviar, carry the 6 discs and you'll be set for a while (bad noob advise... but you'll have everthing you need)
as mids and putter use WILL lead to better form quicker with less bad habits...
i do recommend using the buzzz in place of drivers till your above 250 ft with a buzzz, won't take long, just throw low and flat, if you played ultimate, it shouldn't be long, use the firebird for overhands, forehands and meathooks, use the mako for approaches
buyin a few extra putters is good idea cause amongst friends usually the guy that sinks his putts will be the winner... more putters = easier to practice
good luck, welcome to the sport
take my recomendations as "my" advice, when i started i threw round 200ish, i took my buzzz out for one disc round twice... my buzzz got to 280ish and then my form worked with drivers, my suggestions are just the discs i think were the best for my form at that level of distance... slower drivers might be wiser... but these discs delivered as expected in primo plastic
its late, sorry for the wordage
every noob wants drivers... even if its wrong to do...
with that being said...
pick up a z buzzz , champ roadrunner 170ish, star teebird 165-170, z predator, keep the mako and aviar, carry the 6 discs and you'll be set for a while (bad noob advise... but you'll have everthing you need)
as mids and putter use WILL lead to better form quicker with less bad habits...
i do recommend using the buzzz in place of drivers till your above 250 ft with a buzzz, won't take long, just throw low and flat, if you played ultimate, it shouldn't be long, use the firebird for overhands, forehands and meathooks, use the mako for approaches
buyin a few extra putters is good idea cause amongst friends usually the guy that sinks his putts will be the winner... more putters = easier to practice
good luck, welcome to the sport
take my recomendations as "my" advice, when i started i threw round 200ish, i took my buzzz out for one disc round twice... my buzzz got to 280ish and then my form worked with drivers, my suggestions are just the discs i think were the best for my form at that level of distance... slower drivers might be wiser... but these discs delivered as expected in primo plastic
its late, sorry for the wordage
I was gonna suggest a wasp but I figured since he already had a roc..
I know squat about rocs. If the mako is really a comet rip off, then I think that plus a neb would be a unstoppable combo. I want to work towards this as I throw buzzz/torque/drone and I'd like to carry as few molds as comfort allows. Plus with now drivin putters, the comet (or mako) and neb have more easy distance than most mids. Problem for me is plastic choices and availability
I know squat about rocs. If the mako is really a comet rip off, then I think that plus a neb would be a unstoppable combo. I want to work towards this as I throw buzzz/torque/drone and I'd like to carry as few molds as comfort allows. Plus with now drivin putters, the comet (or mako) and neb have more easy distance than most mids. Problem for me is plastic choices and availability
That's the problem with Rocs, there's a million different kinds. Assuming that it's a Rancho since it's DX and his buddy was quick to sell it for cheap. A well worn Rancho would act very Comet like. I don't really consider the Mako a Comet ripoff though b/c they're shaped differently (comets have beads for example). They may fly similarly for some people but I see the Comet as being a tad longer and more versatile. The more I think about it, the Mako seems like a large diameter Skeeter. A Neb and a Comet prolly would make a good combo, right now I'm using a Qms and a Neb and the Qms just isn't gelling for me as it wears in.
Steal Your Face
Newbie
Yeah its a Rancho, and i didnt pay 10 a disc. I payed 10 $ for all 7. Hah, gotta love a broke friend with rent due 
Dude
Birdie Member
Long time lurker here:
I'll agree with Skurf. Get a Leopard or JLS...and I'll throw a Z XL into the mix. Shoot for around 170 grams. Sidewinders or other understable discs, while nice and maybe will get you a bit more distance, I don't think will teach you the correct mechanics right away. And while learning putters and midranges are the right thing to do, it's not sexy or fun and while 90% of the people here will say to start with those, probably 2% actually did. That's not to say they're wrong, because they're probably right, BUT you want to have fun and throw something that will go far. I'd also say get the midline plastic (Z or Champion.) DX will beat up too fast and you won't be able to adapt to the disc changes. Star and ESP might cost more than you want to lose and to me Star is more overstable than Champ in the same disc type. And losing a brand new disc will suck. Also get something bright and stay away from tie-dyes, which tend to get lost a lot more often than bright discs.
And keep in mind that you shouldn't throw these as hard as you possibly can. 80% power is what people have always told me. For now, just stick with a driver that will keep you in the fairway or a midrange that will do the same. And practice putting!
I started out with a 170gm white JLS. It turned brown and started to look like a rock. So I got an orange Z XL. That's the disc that I truly learned how to use and I can do anything with it. While I can throw much much farther with other discs, the XL will always have a place in my bag. When I need to throw a tunnel shot, or a slightly understable drive, that's what I'm using. And the Leopard was my first ace disc. Also, not coming out of my bag ever.
Another thing, play with people better than you. You'll learn a lot of good and bad things from watching them. Whether it be pushing the envelope and figuring out shots you didn't know existed to seeing them do completely stupid stuff and making bad decisions.
But most importantly, have fun and learn how to putt!
I'll agree with Skurf. Get a Leopard or JLS...and I'll throw a Z XL into the mix. Shoot for around 170 grams. Sidewinders or other understable discs, while nice and maybe will get you a bit more distance, I don't think will teach you the correct mechanics right away. And while learning putters and midranges are the right thing to do, it's not sexy or fun and while 90% of the people here will say to start with those, probably 2% actually did. That's not to say they're wrong, because they're probably right, BUT you want to have fun and throw something that will go far. I'd also say get the midline plastic (Z or Champion.) DX will beat up too fast and you won't be able to adapt to the disc changes. Star and ESP might cost more than you want to lose and to me Star is more overstable than Champ in the same disc type. And losing a brand new disc will suck. Also get something bright and stay away from tie-dyes, which tend to get lost a lot more often than bright discs.
And keep in mind that you shouldn't throw these as hard as you possibly can. 80% power is what people have always told me. For now, just stick with a driver that will keep you in the fairway or a midrange that will do the same. And practice putting!
I started out with a 170gm white JLS. It turned brown and started to look like a rock. So I got an orange Z XL. That's the disc that I truly learned how to use and I can do anything with it. While I can throw much much farther with other discs, the XL will always have a place in my bag. When I need to throw a tunnel shot, or a slightly understable drive, that's what I'm using. And the Leopard was my first ace disc. Also, not coming out of my bag ever.
Another thing, play with people better than you. You'll learn a lot of good and bad things from watching them. Whether it be pushing the envelope and figuring out shots you didn't know existed to seeing them do completely stupid stuff and making bad decisions.
But most importantly, have fun and learn how to putt!
NorrinRadd
Newbie
I agree that you cannot go wrong with Champion Leopard or a Buzz. Great to see that everyone here is open to helping the noobs. I have only played for 4 months and still feel like a noob sometimes, but I'm learning quick!!!
WillACarpenter
* Ace Member *
there is so much terrible information in this thread that I think it should just be dumped and started over.
Also the Katana comes in R-Pro and Pro as well...
Also if I had 200 yard controlled throw I wouldn't ever add a stroke onto my game...I don't know of ANY holes where you'll be adding strokes by add SIX HUNDRED FEET of controlled distance..
oi.
\/\/
Also the Katana comes in R-Pro and Pro as well...
Also if I had 200 yard controlled throw I wouldn't ever add a stroke onto my game...I don't know of ANY holes where you'll be adding strokes by add SIX HUNDRED FEET of controlled distance..
oi.
\/\/
Beable
Double Eagle Member
This made me laugh.
Good point, in a way, honestly. I think that any new skill is a journey and eventually people will learn that to improve they'll have to stop buying stuff and get to practicing...but I agree with you that getting there is the important part. And it's not enough to have an expert say "no high speed disc for you!". At least for me, I had to learn that myself. By seeing how I did with high speed discs vs not and so on.
If I may make a music metaphor: my dad is a professional musician and a great guitarist. He knows that the best way to make a guitarist sensei master is to start on acoustic reading music in standard notation. But most kids find that boring and won't actually practice acoustic. However, they will practice the "wrong" way by learning from tablature how to play Green Day songs on their amplified pointy electric guitars. Because playing Green Day songs is their goal, not being a guitarist sensei master. Maybe later on if they stick with it they'll want to learn how to read standard notation, but maybe not. And that's OK, even if my dad doesn't think so.
- Joined
- Jul 7, 2009
- Messages
- 1,443
My advice
1. use as few discs as possible. you need to learn you discs and proper form before you need to expand to other discs.
2. disc selection: I'd recommend a Leopard and a buzz. both are great, controllable discs and you can use them to drive on most of your shots while your learning.
3. you should be in great control of driving with mids and slower drivers (leopard) before moving up to other drivers.
4. practice putting. 10-15 minutes before a round, 10-15 minutes after. putting is the easiest way to cut strokes off your game when you are new.
you can have putt offs with friends, making a game of it. playing a round you do not get enough practice to see much improvement. having a couple extra putters will help with practice, and when you do practice make follow the same routine that you use in a round.
best of luck and welcome to the greatest game there is.
1. use as few discs as possible. you need to learn you discs and proper form before you need to expand to other discs.
2. disc selection: I'd recommend a Leopard and a buzz. both are great, controllable discs and you can use them to drive on most of your shots while your learning.
3. you should be in great control of driving with mids and slower drivers (leopard) before moving up to other drivers.
4. practice putting. 10-15 minutes before a round, 10-15 minutes after. putting is the easiest way to cut strokes off your game when you are new.
you can have putt offs with friends, making a game of it. playing a round you do not get enough practice to see much improvement. having a couple extra putters will help with practice, and when you do practice make follow the same routine that you use in a round.
best of luck and welcome to the greatest game there is.
garublador
* Ace Member *
Here's my 2 cents.
I'd trade the Beast, it's just not a great disc anymore. There are way better options out there.
Keeping the used Star Valk for later is a good idea. Trading the new Champ one is probably good, too.
I'd trade the Monster just because it's new. You can probably get a disc better suited to you. If it were used I'd say to keep it for spike hyzers for now.
I totally disagree with keeping the Sidewinder. While it will work well for now, it can teach you to back off too much to control it making it difficult to learn to throw with power.
I'm on the fence with the Panther. It will work well for now and will teach good habits, but you'll probably grow out of it. From an economic standpoint it's probably worth trading for something else (Roc, Buzzz, MS, ect.) if you can find someone that wants a Panther.
Definitely keep the Roc. Learn to throw it well. Use it a lot.
+1
Oh yeah, on your approach shots aim 10'-15' to the right and short of the pin to allow room for the disc to slide up (assuming right hand backhand throw).
skinner21
* Ace Member *
The 150 g Valk should work great for you right now.
you just keep spouting dumber and dumber stats. So you are saying that throwing a Katana, or a Boss, or whatever will double, even TRIPLE your distance? That is amazingly stupid.
The truth is an overstable disc that that is going to add about maybe 20-30 feet, but that will only be helpful if you're playing a super open course without any trees. You are going to have so much variation left and right that any benefits in distance will be washed out.
garublador
* Ace Member *
There was too much to try to sort through to quote, so I'll just summarize.
djjeremiahj, there are a couple major assumptions you're making that many believe are incorrect.
First, that we can tell someone how to have the most fun or that we can assume they aren't here for technique help. He's going to do what will be the most fun for him no matter what. People don't ask questions like this on boards like this because they don't know how to have fun. They aren't looking to just go out and hang out with their buds. They do it because they want advice on how to impove. Giving him answers to his questions that will give him the best all around results is the only logical way to respond.
Second that a really fast disc will give a brand new player, even one with an Ultimate background, instant distance. If you take a brand new player and give them a stack of discs of different speeds, they'll probably all go about the same distance. They won't be able to generate the speed or nose down to get them to act differently. It will take practice and learning to get the faster ones to go farther. Learning to throw a Cheetah 280' and learning to throw a Katana 280' will take about the same amount of time from scratch. The former will require better technique and you'll have more control and consistancy (and the Katana will probably go like 300' at that point.) Why spend the time learning how to not throw as far while also learning bad habits and giving up control? Who's that fun for?
Third, that this advice is for people striving to be compeditive, pro level players. This advice will get you to the good rec, crappy intermediate level. Lots of practice will get you beyond that. This is advice for anyone looking to improve. Given that he's not unathletic and he's looking to improve (which is why he's asking), it's safe to assume that if he follows good advice and enjoys practicing and playing (also assumed because he's asking) that he can learn to throw fairway drivers 330'-350' (at least) in 3-6 months. You don't even need to play every day or spend hours practicing. It's quite a bit easier than most people realize if you follow the right advice. You don't become a pro player in that amount of time. Even with just playing a couple rounds on the weekends you can make real progress month to month without sacrificing anything by just following the right advice.
djjeremiahj, there are a couple major assumptions you're making that many believe are incorrect.
First, that we can tell someone how to have the most fun or that we can assume they aren't here for technique help. He's going to do what will be the most fun for him no matter what. People don't ask questions like this on boards like this because they don't know how to have fun. They aren't looking to just go out and hang out with their buds. They do it because they want advice on how to impove. Giving him answers to his questions that will give him the best all around results is the only logical way to respond.
Second that a really fast disc will give a brand new player, even one with an Ultimate background, instant distance. If you take a brand new player and give them a stack of discs of different speeds, they'll probably all go about the same distance. They won't be able to generate the speed or nose down to get them to act differently. It will take practice and learning to get the faster ones to go farther. Learning to throw a Cheetah 280' and learning to throw a Katana 280' will take about the same amount of time from scratch. The former will require better technique and you'll have more control and consistancy (and the Katana will probably go like 300' at that point.) Why spend the time learning how to not throw as far while also learning bad habits and giving up control? Who's that fun for?
Third, that this advice is for people striving to be compeditive, pro level players. This advice will get you to the good rec, crappy intermediate level. Lots of practice will get you beyond that. This is advice for anyone looking to improve. Given that he's not unathletic and he's looking to improve (which is why he's asking), it's safe to assume that if he follows good advice and enjoys practicing and playing (also assumed because he's asking) that he can learn to throw fairway drivers 330'-350' (at least) in 3-6 months. You don't even need to play every day or spend hours practicing. It's quite a bit easier than most people realize if you follow the right advice. You don't become a pro player in that amount of time. Even with just playing a couple rounds on the weekends you can make real progress month to month without sacrificing anything by just following the right advice.
Similar threads
[Recommend]
Recommend a distance driver!
