Highbridge Hills - Wisconsin

[tbird888]

Since you seem to have it figured out...

How many people would have to come pay to play, and at what price, just to cover the mortgage? Now add in equipment maintenance, property maintenance, employees, utilities, and a slew of other stuff. Don't forget that winter kills 90% of your traffic so double your daily costs. Now pay yourself so you can eat.

Yup, Highbridge would be fine. :\

 

[jeremyhilss]

Since you seem to have it figured out...

How many people would have to come pay to play, and at what price, just to cover the mortgage? Now add in equipment maintenance, property maintenance, employees, utilities, and a slew of other stuff. Don't forget that winter kills 90% of your traffic so double your daily costs. Now pay yourself so you can eat.

Yup, Highbridge would be fine. :\

I am not saying its easy being by yourself, but when you say property maintenance, what fo you mean exactly?

As far as I am concerned for a mature disc golf course, that means mowing, and cleaning up the occasional fallen branches or something.

If you are speaking of things like the Honka House, that may be a little more money to upkeep, but even having a roof over your head and a big deck to overlook BB 3 is enough for most of the people I have heard from. The rest of the time people are usually tenting out or staying in rv's. There is no money out of your pocket having other people bring their tents and stuff out there.

What I'm saying is if the Honka House is too much money, dont focus on that. Push camping a bit more, and drop the whole "we're getting a hot tub at he HH", then leaving it half assembled leaning up against the house. Drop the "you can get a workout with our new gym at HBH", then leaving random treadmills and lifting benches outsidr by the practice basket and entrance to the pro shop. Sell at least one of the Mustangs with Highbridge decals on them. He has two plus the truck. You cant just say theres no money at all when things like that are clearly observable. You've gotta make some sacrifices. Take all that time, money and energy and put it towards DISC GOLF. And make sure IF you have a big music festival like what was just had, give some sort of quality beforehand warning. Highbridge has 2 facebook pages, John has one, and Abby has 2, one for her and one for her at Highbridge. Out of those 5 pages, only ONE had one post about this about the day before it happened. Like I said, I live 35 minutes away, go there all the time, and had NO CLUE. This was going on.

I understand I dont know what the numbers look like in terms of finances, but from the first page of this thread years ago, its just the same story over and over and over again, and they all line up with what others have told me in person, and what I've observed myself.

I desperately want something to change there, and I will put on the record that I find John to be a pleasant guy to be around from my experiences talking to him. But he has GOT to get priorities straight if he ever wants this to work.

 

[Pbmercil]

I understand I dont know what the numbers look like in terms of finances

You really should have just left it at that.

I'm not saying Jon does a good job or has a clue what he's doing. But speculating that the place could be profitable basically because you *think* it *should* is nonsense.

 

[tbird888]

Mowers break down. They need oil changes and their blades sharpened. Hell, with the terrain up there, I imagine their lifespans are short so they need replaced fairly frequently, and even if you go cheap, that's still money.

Your ideas seem good for finding money, but that's a month or two. Highbridge needs a steady income, and disc golf obviously hasn't been providing it. In all honesty he probably made more off the rave than disc golf for the month...

I'm not even going to address the eventual lawsuit that is the Honka.

 

[Aim For The Chains]

Mowers break down. They need oil changes and their blades sharpened. Hell, with the terrain up there, I imagine their lifespans are short so they need replaced fairly frequently, and even if you go cheap, that's still money.

Your ideas seem good for finding money, but that's a month or two. Highbridge needs a steady income, and disc golf obviously hasn't been providing it. In all honesty he probably made more off the rave than disc golf for the month...

I'm not even going to address the eventual lawsuit that is the Honka.

Lol. You couldn't give me 1.5mil to take over highbridge. Its fairly worthless land even in 2016. The amouny of development alone would be insane. Just the entry roads...talk about spending $ quickly.

 

[ru4por]

It seems Jeremy is presenting his frustrations more than proposing a business plan.

 

[Texconsinite]

Juaire?

You might find it interesting who owns various segments of the Highbridge hill. Click on parcel numbers located between Poppe and County C with Mile Rd on the south side: http://ashlandcowi.wgxtreme.com/

Thank you for the link, Chuck

Soooo, who are Roger and Ann Marie Juaire?

Because basically them, and a Carl and Christie Dale own almost all of this land according t

When i was up at Highbridge years ago, John mentioned that when he was building the ball golf course originally, he was doing it with one of his relatives (in-law of some type), who died unexpectedly, and that relative's family forced him to sell the land several of the ball golf holes was on, (leaving him with a 15 hole course)

His nephew or someone? got him interested in disc golf and convinced him to look at turning it into a disc golf course.?

So basically im guessing it must be Johns relatives who own most of this land, and somehow continue to allow him to manage it?
If a trust owns most of this land, then John wouldnt be able to transfer ownership of land he doesnt own. Whoever the trustee is would have to operate according to how the trust is set up

Also, because trusts have waay higher tax rates than people, perhaps selling the land and paying taxes on the profits? might be a motivation for whomever NOT to sell, and just continue to limp along until some future date? Still doesn't explain back taxes, etc I can see John going to his family/co-landowners and telling them hes just starting to turn things around financially...

This whole thing is sketchy. The more i look into this, the more i don't understand how Highbridge has stayed open this long. Im glad I got to play it when it did (great course designs Chuck!)

Someone earlier made a good point about disc golfers demanding more, and I really hope privately owned P2P courses are able to be profitable business models moreso in the future. I want to root for highbridge to succeed, but both my experiences while there, and the ongoing shenanigans since then saddens me.

I realize Highbridge is in the middle of nowhere, but when this place does inevitably shut its doors for good, i hope that DG business owners learn from this and it serves as a cautionary tale that there's more to it than just "If you build it, they will come..."

 

[andylibrande]

Did some math to help people with the business side of things:

This is assuming someone pays $1.5 mil to buy the 325 acres for sale and that you could actually get a loan.


Mortgage: $7,000 ($1.5 mil borrowed)
Insurance+Taxes: $500 (may be way understated)
employees: $5,760 (2 per day/everyday/$12 hour)
Maintenance: $750
Min Operating Expense per month: $14,010

Cost per Round $10
Break-Even Visits: 1401 (this means that 1,400 $10/day visits just to break even...no PROFIT!)
Avg Weekend Visitors per Day: 131 (8 weekend days, 75% of all visits)
Avg Weekday Visitors per day: 16 (22 weekdays, 25% of all visits)

That is if the disc golf course is open all year!!!

Full year operational expense may require something like 3,000+ visits per month for 6 months to even Survive. Without the mortgage expense they would probably need 1,500-2,000 visitors a month right now to actually be successful.

To put this into perspective there are only 850 registered members from Wisconsin on DGCR. And approx the same number registered on PDGA with current status.


The challenges of having such an unique property...

 

[J-Bright]

It seems Jeremy is presenting his frustrations more than proposing a business plan.

This^^^

Also there's way too much paperwork/back taxes/ any of that stuff to make it worth it even at a minimum a huge hassle. Take any of that out (which yes I understand one cannot do this) if it was simply pay 1.5 mill for this land and course plus the "houses" and then I 100% agree with Jeremy with the caveat that I think it would take some time to really build up a returning customer base on a consistent basis. Getting the word out more and having only or mostly good things to say about the play can go a long way.

 

[J-Bright]

I like that Andy broke it down, that helps.

Still areas to not pay as much (I know if I had it, I would have probably 4-5 people willing to help with the course maintenance and the whole works and not have to pay them $12 per hour) as well as areas to make more (don't they charge and I forget the exact price now but like $25-$35 per night to stay in their buildings).

Also the ability to maybe not have AS many courses which may or may not hurt them, but focus on like 3-4 amazing courses and then if it works from there increase if you can make it happen.

Ultimately it's a ton of time/money/effort that probably makes it not profitable or at minimum probably not super profitable. I do, however, believe if run correctly it could be profitable to some degree, although the location might hurt it somewhat.

 

[ODRB]

I'm not even going to address the eventual lawsuit that is the Honka.

Are you referring to the rape closet full of expired prescription meds?

 

[DanJon]

Are you referring to the rape closet full of expired prescription meds?

I think that's the course manager's supply closet.

I'm thinking he meant more along the lines of the place collapsing or catching fire from faulty wiring.

 

[jeremyhilss]

Are you referring to the rape closet full of expired prescription meds?

Good Lord and just when I thought the story hit a new low...... what in the world?????

Anyways I do apolagize if I came off as if I have all the answers. I suppose I'm just saying there's critical holes in the way things are going that could be fixed easy. The daily grind and overheads are for sure a whole nother issue.

I just have held out so much benefit-of-the-doubt for so long I guess I am just coping with the realization of the truth. I was so stoked when I first heard I lived so close to the "disc golf mecca", only to find out all the ongoing problems that exist.

 

[tbird888]

Are you referring to the rape closet full of expired prescription meds?

That coupled with the staircase with no two steps being the same and no railing to keep you from falling over the edge after enjoying some of the above mentioned meds.

Jeremy, I'm sorry if I came across as harsh. I know you just want to find some way to keep those amazing courses playable far into the future. It's just going to take a miracle to do it. Stranger things have happened though...

I count myself fortunate to have had the opportunity to enjoy them, even if it was just the once.

 

[joecoin]

Did some math to help people with the business side of things:

This is assuming someone pays $1.5 mil to buy the 325 acres for sale and that you could actually get a loan.


Mortgage: $7,000 ($1.5 mil borrowed)
Insurance+Taxes: $500 (may be way understated)
employees: $5,760 (2 per day/everyday/$12 hour)
Maintenance: $750
Min Operating Expense per month: $14,010

Cost per Round $10
Break-Even Visits: 1401 (this means that 1,400 $10/day visits just to break even...no PROFIT!)
Avg Weekend Visitors per Day: 131 (8 weekend days, 75% of all visits)
Avg Weekday Visitors per day: 16 (22 weekdays, 25% of all visits)

That is if the disc golf course is open all year!!!

Full year operational expense may require something like 3,000+ visits per month for 6 months to even Survive. Without the mortgage expense they would probably need 1,500-2,000 visitors a month right now to actually be successful.

To put this into perspective there are only 850 registered members from Wisconsin on DGCR. And approx the same number registered on PDGA with current status.


The challenges of having such an unique property...

Over $4500/acre seems pretty steep. Let's wait for the sheriffs sale and get it all for $500,000.
Bring in vending machines the 1st two years, open a small pro shop, buy some goats, find a local willing to volunteer for free unlimited play. We'll be rich in no time!

 

[Pbmercil]

Over $4500/acre seems pretty steep. Let's wait for the sheriffs sale and get it all for $500,000.
Bring in vending machines the 1st two years, open a small pro shop, buy some goats, find a local willing to volunteer for free unlimited play. We'll be rich in no time!

Yeah. I would aasume, it Its really in foreclosure, that one could pick it up pretty affordably from the bank. Still not sure that makes enough of a difference to make it profitable. But id def take a shot if I hit the lotery or something and could afford for it to be a money pit.

 

[Mushin No Shin]

I remember going up to Highbridge in mid-late June, ONCE

Overnight Thunderstorm 3 straight nights.... But the one tonight looks worse!!!

It stays wet all the next morning too. Then it's awfully hot, humid, and buggy.

Carts become unavailable for portions of Gold and Granite, if at all.

Mowing is futile. Weed wacking requires too much work.

Pros:

Blueberry has a lot of water, and June could be the best time for playing it.

It's Summertime in the Northwoods

 

[J-Bright]

Maybe Jeremy can fill us in more, but John told me it's about 90% full strength right now.

There's a lot wrong with Highbridge from what it sounds like but I will not consider someone complaining about it raining then being sunny and buggy an issue whatsoever. Welcome to Wisconsin, nothing can be done about that.

A lot of the other stuff that I consider "big" (Like paying taxes and paying people you promise you would and then don't, and taking care of hazardous stuff around the property) should be dealt with and shouldn't ever be an issue from the start but unfortunately they have put themselves there.

 

[DanJon]

A little birdie told me the other day that Infrasound had signed a 10 year contract to have Highbridge as the venue.

I somehow doubt the validity of that.

 

[J-Bright]

A little birdie told me the other day that Infrasound had signed a 10 year contract to have Highbridge as the venue.

I somehow doubt the validity of that.

I, too, do not believe it, but I guess you never know. I also wouldn't be surprised if somehow Highbridge broke the contract (hopefully in a respectful manner but you never know) if that did actually happen. I feel like 10 years is way too long to be a legitimate contract.

I sure wish I was much closer and could help out and give some input to John (I know people have claimed him to be not good in some regards, but he has never been anything but great for me and the group of guys that we go up there with yearly).