How I Would Change the PDGA

[shive]

Peter, back to disc golf broadcasting: It appears as if DGP.tv hasn't shown any live coverage of the KCWO yet, but is instead doing a studio-style wrap show. Does this further lead you to think the PDGA needs to reconsider its resources in this regard?

No, that would be too petty. I don't have any idea what happened here, but I would never reconsider a whole program just because of one glitch.

My problems with our program are more fundamental, and I've already talked about most of them. I still need to cover the beach sports thing. Then I'll share with you the summary and recommendations I gave to the Board last fall. I hope to be done with all that by early next week.

 

[shive]

Disc golf Video/TV part 4: The beach sports initiative.

This year the PDGA launched, with great hype, its Beach Sports Network TV initiative. The first episode was about the Memorial, and there are some reactions to it on another thread in this forum. Check it out.

When this proposal came to the Board last fall, I was initially impressed. It has a sort of sexy feel to it, and in those days I was more susceptible to the argument, "Some of our members really want disc golf on TV (so let's give it to them)". On reflection, however, my attitude changed.

In the first place, it's all postproduced, not live. Postproduced material, in my opinion, is better suited to the internet. The hype, like how we'd be reaching 90 million households, irritated me. It seemed like the answer to the wrong question. Finally I thought, "What, exactly, is the message this part of our program will send to the membership". It goes like this:

"You can watch disc golf on TV, if you happen to live in a certain part of the country, and if you happen to have a particular channel (that you might have to pay extra for) as part of your cable package, and if you happen to be awake at some particular time, and if you wouldn't rather be playing or doing something else at that particular time." I was, and am, underwhelmed.

 

[turbosteve]

The PDGA could have a lower membership fee for college students like many other organizations have.

 

[Donald Duck]

The PDGA needs to get out of the cyclical cycle of hiring friends/players that are not the best option for the position, but rather hired because they know someone.

 

[Cgkdisc]

Going back 6 years or so to when Brian Graham was hired, the PDGA has had wide open recruiting for all positions with dozens of quality resumes submitted from outside the sport. Some of those people received offers but turned down the PDGA either because they had accepted another offer or the pay was not high enough.

If anything there's more of a problem with the members sometimes voting in Board members due to name recognition when lesser known members may be more qualified.

 

[Donald Duck]

Agreed, I realize that working for the PDGA might not be the most lucrative position if you have a quality resume, but at some point in time the PDGA is going to have to take a leap and pay someone top dollar who has the ability and track record of helping to grow a sport similar to Disc Golf.

 

[turbosteve]

If anything there's more of a problem with the members sometimes voting in Board members due to name recognition when lesser known members may be more qualified.

That is the root cause of the majority of the problems the PDGA faces.

 

[JC17393]

Agreed, I realize that working for the PDGA might not be the most lucrative position if you have a quality resume, but at some point in time the PDGA is going to have to take a leap and pay someone top dollar who has the ability and track record of helping to grow a sport similar to Disc Golf.

Who might that be? Serious question. Is there a particular sport that disc golf should be modeling itself after in terms of growth, and is there someone readily identifiable as THE person responsible for that growth that the PDGA could "steal" away to do the same for disc golf? I can't really identify such a person, but I admit there are plenty of sports/activities of which I have no knowledge whatsoever about what they are and how they've grown or who might be responsible for it. If that person is out there, we absolutely should be pursuing their input, if not hiring them to steer our ship.

I think the issue is that for most other "up and coming" type sports, the movers and shakers are always coming from within the ranks, and those people are motivated by pure love of the sport they're involved with. They're not likely to abandon their sport just for a big paycheck. There's no real market of sport growth gurus to tap into. Our next great visionary/leader is going to have to come from within the disc golf world...it's only a matter of time (could be months, could be years) before he or she emerges and takes the reigns.

 

[DGRZ001]

Peter,

First of all I apologize if the following points have already been made. I have not been keeping up with this thread.

I think that if the PDGA continues to act as a de facto trade association (TA), which it has been doing ever since it started subsidizing major tournaments, then the major source of the funding for the PDGA should be coming from the disc golf disc and target manufacturers, and our ED would also be the ED of the TA. Look at the recreation trade shows Brian goes to. Right now, since our sport is not mainstream, his participation is benefitting the visibility of the sport, more than it is the PDGA, in my opinion, and the manufacturers are getting a free ride.

I am sure that you have looked at the differences between the USGA and PGA. The USGA is the repository of the Rules of Play, and handicapping, which we call ratings, and also sponsors one (1!) major open tournament per year. The PGA takes care of the Pro Tour.

I don't know how the USGA receives its funding. I don't know if they receive a significant amount of funding from golf equipment manufacturers. I do believe, however, that the PDGA should CEASE AND DESIST from doing the work of a trade association without being subsidized by the manufacturers. If they don't pay for Brian going to trade shows, let them send their own representatives. I know many of the manufacturers personally, and have nothing against them, but I am tired of sending my money, especially the $25 more I have to pay as a pro (everyone paid the same when I was Commissioner, BTW), to the PDGA to pay for activities these manufacturers should undertake.

I am all for the growth of the sport, but let's do it in a fair way (pun intended). Let us pay a lesser amount for the PDGA to maintain the Rules of Play, encourage amateur play via ratings, encourage growth through youth play and play in other countries, and the awarding of major tournaments. No more direct subsidation of major tournaments. That should not be the role of the current PDGA.

Respectfully submitted,

Bill Burns, #581

 

[shive]

I hit the wrong button

entered by mistake

 

[shive]

Peter,

First of all I apologize if the following points have already been made. I have not been keeping up with this thread.

I think that if the PDGA continues to act as a de facto trade association (TA), which it has been doing ever since it started subsidizing major tournaments, then the major source of the funding for the PDGA should be coming from the disc golf disc and target manufacturers, and our ED would also be the ED of the TA. Look at the recreation trade shows Brian goes to. Right now, since our sport is not mainstream, his participation is benefitting the visibility of the sport, more than it is the PDGA, in my opinion, and the manufacturers are getting a free ride.

I am sure that you have looked at the differences between the USGA and PGA. The USGA is the repository of the Rules of Play, and handicapping, which we call ratings, and also sponsors one (1!) major open tournament per year. The PGA takes care of the Pro Tour.

I don't know how the USGA receives its funding. I don't know if they receive a significant amount of funding from golf equipment manufacturers. I do believe, however, that the PDGA should CEASE AND DESIST from doing the work of a trade association without being subsidized by the manufacturers. If they don't pay for Brian going to trade shows, let them send their own representatives. I know many of the manufacturers personally, and have nothing against them, but I am tired of sending my money, especially the $25 more I have to pay as a pro (everyone paid the same when I was Commissioner, BTW), to the PDGA to pay for activities these manufacturers should undertake.

I am all for the growth of the sport, but let's do it in a fair way (pun intended). Let us pay a lesser amount for the PDGA to maintain the Rules of Play, encourage amateur play via ratings, encourage growth through youth play and play in other countries, and the awarding of major tournaments. No more direct subsidation of major tournaments. That should not be the role of the current PDGA.

Respectfully submitted,

Bill Burns, #581

Very interesting post. I agree with you that many of the activities the PDGA undertakes are beneficial to the manufacturers. It's almost a truism, as anything that "grows" the game will benefit the manufacturers. It isn't black and white, however, because manufactureres do support major (and minor) tournaments. To me it's a question of balance, and I've argued that the balance has gone seriously wrong. Perhaps this is partly because the PDGA is too cozy with the manufacturers.

For example, I've argued that the $300,000+ that we pour into the top-end major events is way too much, especially as there is also a small army of PDGA Office people running around helping to run these events. I'd rather see us take about $50,000 of that and put it into benefits to tournament directors. I'd like us to leave another $100,000 with local communities and clubs by reducing A,B and C-Tier player fees by $1.00.

So I'm a little different from you. I'm not saying "cease and desist" entirely. I am saying we should cut way back, and if that's too much slack for the manufacturers and they would like to pitch in to make up the slack, that would be fine with me.

 

[shive]

Conflict of Interest? You be the Judge.

The ongoing tech standards discussion disturbs me, because I have already been sensitized to the issues of conflict of interest (another of my campaign items) and fairness to manufacturers. At this time we could summarize the present situation, murky as it is, by saying, "Innova would like us to study(?)/change(?) the technical standards for discs." That makes me feel edgy enough, but since I still don't know just what is going on I want to talk about another initiative involving Innova that I do know about and have been upset about for almost two years.

At Fall Summit 2011 the PDGA awarded a $45,000 grant to EDGE. I opposed it, not because I am anti-education, but because I considered it a violation of conflict of interest protocols, and unfair to other manufacturers. Specifically, I objected (and still object) because:
1) The EDGE proposal was presented by Innova personnel.
2) I considered EDGE to be a non-profit subsidiary of Innova.
3) Four of the seven PDGA Board members were sponsored by Innova.
4) The only discs offered by the EDGE program were those made by Innova.
5) The EDGE Board of Directors did not include members of any disc manufacturing corporation other than Innova.
6) Brian Graham was an honorary member of the EDGE Board of Directors.

I have no problem with EDGE, or even Innova, asking for $45,000. Any corporation is entitled to compete in the marketplace as best it sees fit. My problem is solely with the PDGA giving it. I do not believe we handle conflict of interest issues properly. The PDGA still hides COI disclosures from the membership. Worse than that, we still permit Board members (even after they have been ruled in conflict of interest!) to continue to lobby the Board in their own self-interest.

I'm asking for your judgment. Do it like this. I've been seriously out of step with Board COI issues since I joined the Board. If you think my attitude about this issue and COI in general is wrong, don't vote for me. I wouldn't want to continue to serve, and I'd just be getting in the way.

 

[mashnut]

Were there any other manufacturers interested in being a part of a program like that at the time that Innova was proposing that program?

Also, do you think it's possible to avoid conflicts of interest when the only people interested in being on the board are people heavily involved in disc golf who are going to have connections to various manufacturers and interests?

 

[Mr. Anderson]

EDGE is a great program. Number 4 on your list makes it a marketing/promotional tool for Innova. Any issues I have with what you described disappear if all manufacturers were allowed to participate. The program would only get bigger and better if every disc golf resource was able to contribute donations to the "Non-Profit".

 

[shive]

COI? You be the Judge.

Were there any other manufacturers interested in being a part of a program like that at the time that Innova was proposing that program?
Also, do you think it's possible to avoid conflicts of interest when the only people interested in being on the board are people heavily involved in disc golf who are going to have connections to various manufacturers and interests?

#1) Not that I know of. I don't know if they were asked.
#2) No. There will always be conflicts of interest, and there's nothing wrong with that. The important consideration is how you handle them.

 

[shive]

EDGE is a great program. Number 4 on your list makes it a marketing/promotional tool for Innova. Any issues I have with what you described disappear if all manufacturers were allowed to participate. The program would only get bigger and better if every disc golf resource was able to contribute donations to the "Non-Profit".

Why would other manufacturers contribute donations so that EDGE could sell more Innova discs to schools?

 

[Cgkdisc]

Having been involved as EDGE was formed, Innova made it clear that other manufacturers were welcome to participate and include their discs and baskets in the program IF they made a substantial financial commitment to EDGE to become a significant partner. No takers then and now. PDGA didn't have the resources to develop EDGE and everyone agrees something like that is needed. So we end up where we are now with the PDGA wanting to support the program and Innova the only backer of EDGE with no other educational program around. Sometimes tolerating Conflicts of Interest in emerging sports is the only way some things get done.

 

[turbosteve]

This blog from Gateway talks more about the Junior Disc Golf and what Dave McCormack thinks the PDGA should do.
Disc Golf = Life Sport

April 23, 2013 By david 5 Comments


Disc Golf is now more popular than even with no signs of it slowing down.
The PDGA has done such a great job of providing an outlet for the competitive adult disc golfer. The collegiate championships will certainly grow the sport at the college level, but not much has been done nationally to create more play among kids under 16.

A few years back myself and other members of our club here in ST Louis, wanted to run more events geared for kids, but the board at the time wasn't quite sure if bringing kids out to our events was a good idea. Disc golf has been long known for its counter culture side and " extra curricular activities" that have become the norm. We actually had a vote about trying to attract kids under 16 to play at our events. At the time, the consensus was that our members didn't want to give up their behavior in favor of more kids playing at our events. There was an effort made to run JR only events, but unfortunately after a few low turnouts the direction was abandoned.

Over the last 10 years there has been a 30% drop in JR play in Ball golf, but more recently the number of kids playing golf has risen and is now on a huge increase as high school and jr golf is more popular than ever,, especially amongst girls.
The PGA has several programs including First TEE and the Drive, Chip and putt competition ( based on the NFL's punt, pass and kick) and these programs are churning out the young golfers of the future.

Yes we ( disc golf) does have the E.D.G.E. program, but after a closer look this program appears to be more of a marketing program for one particular company. Ive tried on several occasions to donate 500 discs to the program, but my efforts were not welcome.

I feel its time for the pdga or maybe a new group of promoters to spend the time energy and money that is necessary to establish JR disc golf as part of the sport.

I'm writing this blog to start the discussion as whether or not the current organized entities in the sport are ready to do whats necessary to allow kids to play WITH us or is a separate JR disc golf the only way this will work?

Please repost this article on your local club message board or share with your friends on Facebook and twitter and go to our website and vote on what you think is the best direction to head today.

www.gatewaydiscsports.com

 

[onemilemore]

It seems to me that the manufacturers need to play nice here. I appreciate that Gateway wanted to donate 500 discs, but if you were Innova and were funding the rest of the program, would you put Gateway's name on it for that small amount either?

If Innova created the program, I kind of feel like other manufacturers either need to contribute on Innova's terms, or create their own competing programs.

That said, I would like to see more local clubs reaching out to kids and schools as opposed to the manufacturers, but there is only so much money/volunteer manpower to go around.

 

[mashnut]

I just don't have that big a problem with companies getting some free advertising if they're doing something good like this, and everyone I've talked to that actually worked with EDGE had positive things to say.

I've also heard great things about working with Gateway for specific events for kids, and them throwing in extra lightweight discs and things like that, and again I think that's great and would be happy to see them get some free advertising at that event for their contributions. Maybe Gateway should start a similar program and see if the PDGA is willing to contribute like they have for EDGE.