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Is Ricky Wysocki Already Becoming the Next Disc Golf Legend?

ChrisWoj said:
If I remember right - that WAS the distance championship for a number of years. Not just one year.
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You may be correct about many years ago, however the video of GG winning below was from 2008 and Big Jerm supposedly won in 2012.

 
ChrisWoj said:
I'm going to be honest - I've kind of silently just said "meh" when considering the heel-toe argument. Kinda blatantly stupid when you consider how much time I spend with my running athletes on their foot strike. But I digress.... In light of what you've said in this thread about injury prevention, and my own ankle soreness over the past few years I may actually try to pay attention to whether I spin on my heel or toes. I've literally never cared enough to pay attention to it. If I am on my toes, I am now contemplating what you're saying and I may transition... It makes sense to do so in light of this.

Does anybody have any sort of counter-point to his comments re: toe-pivot/injury?
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I speak from my own injury experience of when I fractured my tibia mid tourney about 10 years ago.

Simple home test - take shoe off and stand balanced on your front leg and try to pivot on your toes/ball, and then try it again and pivot on your heel. Which feels easier and more efficient/centered body rotation?
 
If my memory is right I believe GG was throwing a Gateway Illusion on that toss. Impressive.

Second, funny how we are saying 2012 was "back in the day"!
 
lyleoross said:
There was certainly a different set of courses, but some were exactly the same. DeLa, LaMir, USDGC - albeit with less ob. And a technical wooded course is what it is. Remember also, Ken didn't tour like they do today.

This is like the baseball argument. Anyone that wants to say Babe Ruth wasn't great is nuts. That still leaves him #2 behind Aaron. I'll believe someone is greater than KC when they've done what he's done. Comparing Ken to modern players has no value. He played a different game. He still dominated.
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Minor quibble - USDGC is more than just minor OB changes between Climo's hey-day and now.
 
I have not read a lot of this thread, but can see the old KC comparison rose up. I am in the camp that the "greatest player" argument should be kept to generation constraints in almost all sports. I think saying, "I'll believe someone is greater than KC when they've done what he's done." is ridiculous given how young the sport is and just how much it's changed. The depth of talent, along with the level of talent is enough to trump that argument and I have yet to be convinced otherwise. You could probably coin KC as the best BH thrower/shot shaper of all time. He was doing it with more limited technology and in his day (or first half of his career) finesse was the name of the game. The game has changed, and finesse is important, but it's a much smaller piece.

I think saying that someone has to go 13X to be coined the best ever is ignoring to many factors.

Basically, that argument would say that if Ken Climo came on the scene today as a young up and comer like he did in the 90s he would still find his way to 12 world titles. NOPE. If you doubt that just go watch some early disc golf videos. Today's players are better in almost all aspects and there are much more of them. Better and more athletic form. Overall better putters (depth wise). More well rounded (BH/FH). Ken dominated and he is without a doubt the best player of his generation, but comparisons need to be kept generational, especially in sport that has underwent as much change as disc golf has. You can argue that form change is relative to the amount of torque today's disc can handle, but I urge you to go look. Outside of Ken, Barry and a few more guys there were very few who measure up to a whole host of players today form wise.

Ricky and Paul are a cut above the rest, but you can see young guys coming up and I have 0 doubt that the bar will continue to raise. It will keep raising until the very distant future when kids with very natural athletic ability begin to choose disc golf as a path over the classic American sports like football, basketball, baseball, and hockey. We are far away from that, but when the world champ of disc golf is a national hero among the youth of the world for the first time we will see the depth of talent reach a level far beyond what we are witnessing today. As a member of the cult, I have high hopes that day will come.

Also, KC may indeed be my favorite player of all time so far, so this is no knock on him.
 
Lazerface said:
I have not read a lot of this thread, but can see the old KC comparison rose up. I am in the camp that the "greatest player" argument should be kept to generation constraints in almost all sports. I think saying, "I'll believe someone is greater than KC when they've done what he's done." is ridiculous given how young the sport is and just how much it's changed. The depth of talent, along with the level of talent is enough to trump that argument and I have yet to be convinced otherwise. You could probably coin KC as the best BH thrower/shot shaper of all time. He was doing it with more limited technology and in his day (or first half of his career) finesse was the name of the game. The game has changed, and finesse is important, but it's a much smaller piece.

I think saying that someone has to go 13X to be coined the best ever is ignoring to many factors.

Basically, that argument would say that if Ken Climo came on the scene today as a young up and comer like he did in the 90s he would still find his way to 12 world titles. NOPE. If you doubt that just go watch some early disc golf videos. Today's players are better in almost all aspects and there are much more of them. Better and more athletic form. Overall better putters (depth wise). More well rounded (BH/FH). Ken dominated and he is without a doubt the best player of his generation, but comparisons need to be kept generational, especially in sport that has underwent as much change as disc golf has. You can argue that form change is relative to the amount of torque today's disc can handle, but I urge you to go look. Outside of Ken, Barry and a few more guys there were very few who measure up to a whole host of players today form wise.

Ricky and Paul are a cut above the rest, but you can see young guys coming up and I have 0 doubt that the bar will continue to raise. It will keep raising until the very distant future when kids with very natural athletic ability begin to choose disc golf as a path over the classic American sports like football, basketball, baseball, and hockey. We are far away from that, but when the world champ of disc golf is a national hero among the youth of the world for the first time we will see the depth of talent reach a level far beyond what we are witnessing today. As a member of the cult, I have high hopes that day will come.

Also, KC may indeed be my favorite player of all time so far, so this is no knock on him.
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I'd equate Ken with a Bobby Jones type of figure or maybe a Harry Vardon type of figure. Crushing a nascent but emerging legitimate field of competitors. Guys who came up before him were along the lines of Bob Ferguson/Tom Morris Jr type of competitors beating on relatively non-existent fields made up of very localized regional crowds.

I don't think we've got our Jack Nicklaus yet. Someone needs to come in and dominate a truly mature field for a generation to be our Jack. It could wind up being an Eagle, Rick, Paul, or Simon (in no particular order). It could wind up being none of them. What if Paul's injury bug never dissipates, Simon decides he can earn more being entertaining than great, Eagle decides he has a different passion, or Rick decides to live in a van... down by the river. But any of them could one day overtake Climo in terms of recognized greatness.

I mean how often do we still hear about Harry Vardon? (crickets) - but back before the Masters was created, when the US Open and The Open Championship were the only two professional majors: Harry Vardon set a record that has never been broken with 6 Open Championships. He dominated that one event and it could be a record that stands for decades yet to come, another century... Just as Ken Climo dominated his golf world, and specifically one event (The World Championship) in an untouchable fashion.

Now, I think Climo - considering the field - is going to be looked at more like a Bobby Jones figure who managed to finish out his career, to take it further outside of the bounds of golf like a Bill Russell or a Babe Ruth. Very few still consider Babe Ruth or Bill Russell the greatest of all time, but we recognize that they'd be hall of fame talents still to this day and that at their time they were the greatest of all time (and more like Climo/unlike Jones - they finished out careers, whereas he got hurt in his car accident).
 
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lyleoross said:
I agree, the talent is too thick now. If someone does what KC has done, they will be a different kind of player. Paul and Ricky essentially took what KC did and did it a little better (although that's hard to measure since they ain't going head to head with KC).
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I see many similarities to the early days of UFC and its stars. There were good fighters, but the training and talent level is at a different level now.
 
ChrisWoj said:
If I am on my toes, I am now contemplating what you're saying and I may transition... It makes sense to do so in light of this.
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I don't know if you remember the joint issues I have, if you do then you also know I'm not one to take form critique from, but I can definitely tell you a heel pivot will be much smoother and stress everything much less.
 
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