JomezPro Acquired by DGPT

[robdeforge]

Apologies if I missed it, but from where do we know that Jomez didn't pay the 250K?

nvm it was in the ultiworld interview, apologies!

Just over a year ago, JomezPro announced a bold new deal with the DGPT, agreeing to pay $250,000 a year for two years of MPO Lead Card coverage rights. Sources tell Ultiworld Disc Golf that the rights fee was never paid as JomezPro faced financial trouble after seeing a drop in revenue during the 2022 season; Gomez said that rather than seeing e-commerce sales, a major component of Jomez's income, plateau, something they had long expected especially after the huge increase in demand in 2021,"it was like a cliff, just straight drop off basically." Jomez's Patreon subscriber count dropped nearly 40% from July 2021 to April 2023, perhaps in part due to an increasing shift in viewership towards live coverage.

 

[mattw]

For sure could be this simple.

We don't even know who approached who to start the whole deal conversation. Jomez Pro. was already broadcasting DGPT Elite events (most? all?) prior though, right? What could have motivated the need/desire to pay more to secure the exclusive rights when they already effectively had those rights by being the top product vendor?

If vendor competition was driving the motivation to secure the exclusive broadcast rights, it's hard to believe that the price produced by the competitive market would be in the $250K/yr neighborhood. If the Jomez revenue was there in '20-21 to make this deal feasible, DGPT knew that too and went after the biggest fish. Smells like monopoly bullying to me.

Pretty much every sport is a monopoly. That's why broadcasters bid big money to carry sports. Just how things work with niche markets.

Sooner or later this was going to happen. Just like in other sports. DGPT owns the product so they set the price and who has access to the product. Depending on subscriber growth this might not be the last YouTuber to be absorbed or kicked to the side.

I don't watch a ton of YouTube content for disc golf. The other groups mentioned are they only following lower cards for post production? If so it sounds like they have access in exchange for extra cameras and people to film for the live broadcast. Then they can use the footage for post production. Please correct me if that is incorrect. So many moving parts it's hard to keep up.

 

[ChrisWoj]

It's interesting to me in that professional disc golf has historically not been a driver of the sport. The sport was more of a grass roots-driven experience propping up a facade of professional disc golf. Now that professional disc golf has found a billionaire to prop it up, it's fairly well detached from anything the grass roots-driven experience is doing.

Jomez obviously is hitched to the professional disc golf tour, so a decline in fortunes for them signals a possible cooling in the interest in the professional disc golf tour (or just a shuffling of who is watching what where). How does that relate to the overall popularity of the sport? I have no idea anymore. DGPT seems in a lot of ways completely unrelated to the things I've always considered disc golf to be.

My own musings have me thinking that this is less a sign of a "bubble" popping or necessarily a cooling as much as maybe a miscalculation regarding financial support? What I mean is - there are so many spaces in disc golf where I've donated once. You know? Bought a disc to support this pro, supported a Patreon account for a month, etc. With the massive influx of new players - how many operate similarly? I doubt I'm special. How many people donated to Jomez once, their new favorite thing? Bought a single t-shirt or hat? And did Jomez assume that they would continue to receive that one-time support as more of a regular thing from the massive influx of newbies?

 

[Shallows]

Jomez Pro. was also significantly disadvantaged by larger market features such as lack of DGPT alternatives/access to other events

I also recall someone floated the idea of Jomez's own events.

Let's hear it for a Jomez X Southern Nationals Collaboration!

In all seriousness, if Jomez had deeper financial stability they coulda/shoulda trialed a few non-DGPT disc golf competitions. The NT events was a good object lesson: Basically equivalent YouTube views as DGPT events.

Would have given them a stronger negotiating position as I don't think many viewers care what tour a competition is on as long as it's on Jomez and has pros.

Would have been easy to get the pros to go along with it as it would serve them to have a DGPT competitor for obvious reasons.

 

[Nova P]

Would have been easy to get the pros to go along with it as it would serve them to have a DGPT competitor for obvious reasons.

Yeah I've kind of been thinking it would be nice to have an alternative to the DGPT since the middle of last December.

 

[Three Putt]

Let's hear it for a Jomez X Southern Nationals Collaboration!

In all seriousness, if Jomez had deeper financial stability they coulda/shoulda trialed a few non-DGPT disc golf competitions. The NT events was a good object lesson: Basically equivalent YouTube views as DGPT events.

Would have given them a stronger negotiating position as I don't think many viewers care what tour a competition is on as long as it's on Jomez and has pros.

Would have been easy to get the pros to go along with it as it would serve them to have a DGPT competitor for obvious reasons.

But...I mean, DGPT is a mirage propped up on a billionaires wallet. How are you going to get the players to agree to attend events designed to rock the boat against their sugar daddy? How would Jomez be able to match the payouts that the billionaire is propping up? DGPT played nice with the PDGA; they wouldn't have to play nice with Jomez competition. The only way it would happen is if Jomez found a billionaire that wanted to play a "throw money around" competition with Rainwater.

 

[ChrisWoj]

But...I mean, DGPT is a mirage propped up on a billionaires wallet. How are you going to get the players to agree to attend events designed to rock the boat against their sugar daddy? How would Jomez be able to match the payouts that the billionaire is propping up? DGPT played nice with the PDGA; they wouldn't have to play nice with Jomez competition. The only way it would happen is if Jomez found a billionaire that wanted to play a "throw money around" competition with Rainwater.

Isn't it an overstatement to call Spring a billionaire? I can't find it for the life of me - but I could have sworn his Dad was the billionaire and his Dad gave away a considerable chunk of his fortune to medical charity (charities?) - possibly related to whatever it was that took him?

Really annoying me that I can't find it right now... but the teat may not be as full as "billionaire" implies.

 

[Dcinmd]

Isn't it an overstatement to call Spring a billionaire? I can't find it for the life of me - but I could have sworn his Dad was the billionaire and his Dad gave away a considerable chunk of his fortune to medical charity (charities?) - possibly related to whatever it was that took him?

Really annoying me that I can't find it right now... but the teat may not be as full as "billionaire" implies.

It is not Spring. Todd Rainwater.

Todd Rainwater

He's usually just the man behind the curtain, but he does occasionally go on smashboxx or the upshot

 

[ChrisWoj]

It is not Spring. Todd Rainwater.

Oops! Yeah, thats why I couldn't find it! I clearly don't pay enough attention to the workings of the DGPT. But my statement holds...

Rainwater had an estimated worth of $3B. Even if split evenly among his three children and ignoring his wife, it would likely leave them all less than billionaires ultimately, and thats before considering this from his wiki:

Between 2009 and his death in 2015, he suffered from progressive supranuclear palsy, a rare disease involving neurodegeneration. During his lifetime, Rainwater donated over $380 million to charitable causes and left nearly all of his estate to his charitable foundation.

This note in a referenced Fortune article also gives some idea of the scope of the inheritance that Todd might have received (though obviously the number could be wildly different, it seems to indicate less than a billion is likely):

The three Rainwater children, in turn, had spent relatively little time with their dad in the years after he divorced their mother, married Moore, and left full-time residence in Fort Worth. Rainwater had provided generously for them, setting up trust accounts with the thought of leaving each child with about $5 million. His success multiplied the children's stake in his investments far beyond that amount. In a court filing in California in connection with his 2003 divorce, Matthew listed more than $50 million in assets.

https://fortune.com/2011/11/07/the-fight-of-richard-rainwaters-life/

 

[nothinbuttree]

Not sure where the real power is in the current Pro Tour. Lets consider the $ ins and outs in DG at present:

INCOME:
Disc and other equipment (baskets, bags mostly) sales
PDGA memberships
Entry fees to events
Advertiser income (mostly Disc companies, though some others are coming on board).
Content fees (DGN, USDGC, etc)
Patreon support--Jomez, Gatekeeper, individual disc golfers
Revenue from online content (think youtube views)

EXPENSES (distinct from the actual COGS to make the above, so leave out disc production costs, camera crew labor, etc)
Local course/city costs to host tournaments
Costs to install courses
Player sponsorship revenue--the BIG one at present.
Operating costs for PDGA
Payouts given to players for tournament results.

I am sure I am missing some, feel free to add!
Of all these, it seems fair to suggest that disc sales (net of costs to produce) and player sponsorship money are the 800 pound gorillas in the room. I mean, if so many companies were not making such good coin, then players would still get paid little, and there would be little advertising income either, since most of it comes from them.

I guess I am thinking the real power in DG still has to be the disc companies. If they suddenly all started breaking even, or worse, coupled with having to break contracts with their sponsored players, where does that leave entities like DGN, and the DGPT? Maybe I just am not getting some things here, but every time I watch a live event, I only see somewhere between 3-4 thousand other viewers. That ain't millionaire-making money you know?

 

[BillFleming]

Not sure where the real power is in the current Pro Tour. Lets consider the $ ins and outs in DG at present:

INCOME:
Disc and other equipment (baskets, bags mostly) sales
PDGA memberships
Entry fees to events
Advertiser income (mostly Disc companies, though some others are coming on board).
Content fees (DGN, USDGC, etc)
Patreon support--Jomez, Gatekeeper, individual disc golfers
Revenue from online content (think youtube views)

EXPENSES (distinct from the actual COGS to make the above, so leave out disc production costs, camera crew labor, etc)
Local course/city costs to host tournaments
Costs to install courses
Player sponsorship revenue--the BIG one at present.
Operating costs for PDGA
Payouts given to players for tournament results.

I am sure I am missing some, feel free to add!
Of all these, it seems fair to suggest that disc sales (net of costs to produce) and player sponsorship money are the 800 pound gorillas in the room. I mean, if so many companies were not making such good coin, then players would still get paid little, and there would be little advertising income either, since most of it comes from them.

I guess I am thinking the real power in DG still has to be the disc companies. If they suddenly all started breaking even, or worse, coupled with having to break contracts with their sponsored players, where does that leave entities like DGN, and the DGPT? Maybe I just am not getting some things here, but every time I watch a live event, I only see somewhere between 3-4 thousand other viewers. That ain't millionaire-making money you know?

With the bolded part.....you might only be seeing a few viewers, but those aren't the only ones that pay for the DGN. If you are a paid member of PDGA, the PDGA has given a portion of your membership fee to DGN - regardless of if you subscribed or not.

 

[Three Putt]

Oops! Yeah, thats why I couldn't find it! I clearly don't pay enough attention to the workings of the DGPT. But my statement holds...

Rainwater had an estimated worth of $3B. Even if split evenly among his three children and ignoring his wife, it would likely leave them all less than billionaires ultimately, and thats before considering this from his wiki:


This note in a referenced Fortune article also gives some idea of the scope of the inheritance that Todd might have received (though obviously the number could be wildly different, it seems to indicate less than a billion is likely):

https://fortune.com/2011/11/07/the-fight-of-richard-rainwaters-life/

I mean if the one son was worth 50M in 2003 (well before their father passes in 2015) then the kids were set up well before his death and nothing makes money better than money. Figure investments and such over 20+ years and there is no telling how much the guy could be worth. There is very, very little about about his background and what he had done before he pops up in Nantucket that I can find. So who knows?

People who should know tell me he's a billionaire, though.

 

[ChrisWoj]

I mean if the one son was worth 50M in 2003 (well before their father passes in 2015) then the kids were set up well before his death and nothing makes money better than money. Figure investments and such over 20+ years and there is no telling how much the guy could be worth. There is very, very little about about his background and what he had done before he pops up in Nantucket that I can find. So who knows?

People who should know tell me he's a billionaire, though.

The Fortune article also noted that Todd's professional interest was a disc golf course, while mentioning business/career interests of the siblings that would be more realistically lucrative.... Frankly I'm doubting any claims that the guy is a billionaire.

 

[txmxer]

One doesn't need to be a billionaire to be a big fish in the disc golf pond.

 

[oddjob]

The Fortune article also noted that Todd's professional interest was a disc golf course, while mentioning business/career interests of the siblings that would be more realistically lucrative.... Frankly I'm doubting any claims that the guy is a billionaire.

Agree, he's probably as broke as you are. But you'll always have those what could've been touring years!

 

[Monkeypaws]

Disc golf is one of the most bizarre financial scenarios ever.

Money comes from the producers of product, Innova, Discraft, etc., and from social media. Weird!

That a major producer of DG content, Jomez, lost a crap ton of dough because they didn't sell enough frisbees? Whaaah?

The money came too fast to this sport. Until legit media channels start giving out the big bucks that keeps the boat afloat, this is a house of cards. Grow the game means give us the dough!

 

[ChrisWoj]

Agree, he's probably as broke as you are. But you'll always have those what could've been touring years!

**** yourself, you ****ing weirdo. Go nut some other way.

 

[ChrisWoj]

Disc golf is one of the most bizarre financial scenarios ever.

Money comes from the producers of product, Innova, Discraft, etc., and from social media. Weird!

That a major producer of DG content, Jomez, lost a crap ton of dough because they didn't sell enough frisbees? Whaaah?

The money came too fast to this sport. Until legit media channels start giving out the big bucks that keeps the boat afloat, this is a house of cards. Grow the game means give us the dough!

Disagree strongly. That someone did a poor job managing the money doesn't mean the money "came too fast." There will be high points and low points, but the money that came in in no way hurt the future influx.

 

[Nick Pacific]

Are the views down that much? Patreon down? Youtube change payment structure?

Obviously the "Holy Shot" was a humongous boom to their channel, but it shouldn't take Captain Foresight to realize it was a peak.

I haven't noticed any drop off around here in terms of players and tournament/league participation since the "bubble" of 2021. Our first day of spring league last week saw 55 players come through which I believe is an all time record. I don't think it's a bubble bursting in terms of disc golf per say - I think the economy is spiraling downward into the toilet, inflation is continuing to become a problem, and the sheer amount of discretionary money that people had even as little as a year ago is vanishing, quickly. Consumer debt has never been as high as it is right now as I write this.

I think disc golf is going to continue to see new growth year over year at a near double digit rate, but the amount of discretionary money people can throw down outside of buying a few discs and gas in their car to get to the course and whatnot is going to make it seem otherwise.

 

[Cgkdisc]

A couple items on this. Maybe the kids got paid to oversee the charitable foundation versus each directly inheriting a third from Dad, presumably for tax reasons. So, Todd may have access to all of the foundation resources if in charge and siblings are in agreement.

Here's something regarding where PDGA income is being spent. In the Spring 2020 issue of Disc Golfer it appears the staff and part-time consultants was about 20 people. In the Spring 2023 issue, the masthead shows around 40 staff and consultants post Covid boom. We know membership has increased exponentially, presumably in the Am ranks. However, a significant portion of the hires appear focused on major events for top end players and supporting elite events. I believe non-profits are only allowed to hold in reserve maybe 6 months of operating expenses. So, presumably they need to spend any additional windfall somewhere to retain non-profit status.