Ledgestone Analysis: Why do people not play proper divisions based player rating?

[DatRedDude]

In the beginning there was only open. Then the sport got slightly larger and fields were big enough that a separation of talent appeared. The less talented wanted to play organized rounds against one another without the added stress of actually competing against good players. Am competition was formed. In the beginning it was always assumes that Am was the sideshow that you hoped to grow out of. If you win you moved up, because Am isn't for winners, it is for schlubs that don't care as much about the competition.

Today people act like Am came first and they made higher divisions to accommodate the better players. No, your Am division was formed to accommodate your lower skill and self confidence. If you play Am you are playing in the handicapped division. Don't pretend that it is some equal form of competition with open.

This is in the opinion of an open division donater. If you find the nerve to play against people that you know are more skilled than you I salute you. DFL in open is by default a better finish than 1st in advanced, because you showed the strength of character to dare to achieve.

Please tell me more about how much more character you have than me.

 

[BionicRib]

Injury could also be another reason somebody plays up. I've had a nagging one that has dropped my rating from 953 to 923 in about a year. If and when I get healthy I would still play advanced instead of intermediate.

Not sure if this has been mentioned or not already

 

[brutalbrutus]

I could care less what division people play for, but you can't get better playing with people that are not better than you.

I think Mcbeth would disagree with this statement.

 

[DavidSauls]

I'm kind of a "fence rider" on this subject.

Let's face it, if open was the only division offered, PDGA tournies would have fewer participants and someone would create another organization for the "rest of us".

In the rest of my athletic life, I was always against handicapped competition. Stopped playing in handicapped ball golf leagues when beating someone by 6 in actual score but losing because I had to GIVE him 8 seemed silly to me. Or, losing to someone in bowling because their 150 + 40 pin handicap beat my 188 or whatever. I understand without the "handicaps", participation would be much lower.

Having divisions in disc enables more people to have a chance. You can tell me to play open and "get better" (as I've told countless people in other sports), but I started playing at 48 and have played for 8 years. My chances of getting good enough to compete in Open are basically nil.

For what it's worth, handicaps are the complete opposite of skill-based divisions. Handicaps allow players of different skill levels to compete against each other, adjusting their actual scores for the outcome. Skill-based divisions group players of similar skill levels, and the best score wins.

I've never understood the attraction of handicaps, but I recognize that a lot of people, in a lot of sports, like them.

When I had knees I used to play pickup basketball, getting together with other guys of roughly similar skills and competing. Sometimes fiercely. It didn't matter that we weren't as good as college or pro athletes, nor that we were much better than many other people. I see local, organized adult leagues, in various sports, doing much the same thing.

The big difference in disc golf is that we have the different skill level divisions competing at the same time, often on the same course and layout. Whereas in bigger sports the pros are off competing somewhere else, and the seniors, and perhaps the beginners.

 

[TimSyl]

For what it's worth, handicaps are the complete opposite of skill-based divisions. Handicaps allow players of different skill levels to compete against each other, adjusting their actual scores for the outcome. Skill-based divisions group players of similar skill levels, and the best score wins.

I've never understood the attraction of handicaps, but I recognize that a lot of people, in a lot of sports, like them.

When I had knees I used to play pickup basketball, getting together with other guys of roughly similar skills and competing. Sometimes fiercely. It didn't matter that we weren't as good as college or pro athletes, nor that we were much better than many other people. I see local, organized adult leagues, in various sports, doing much the same thing.

The big difference in disc golf is that we have the different skill level divisions competing at the same time, often on the same course and layout. Whereas in bigger sports the pros are off competing somewhere else, and the seniors, and perhaps the beginners.

Not really the complete opposite, but I get your point. Having the skill based divisions is sort of like handicapping before the fact, as opposed to after.

 

[Shamis]

I'd much rather play in a division I'm not good enough for than bag it up in a low division. More fun to play with people better than you and learn.

 

[gdub58]

I'd much rather play in a division I'm not good enough for than bag it up in a low division. More fun to play with people better than you and learn.

As has been mentioned, learning from those better than you should take place outside of the competitive tournament environment.

And I don't think you are "bagging it up" in a lower division unless you win in that division for several tournaments in a row. If you do that, chances are pretty good that your rating will have risen to the point where you won't be eligible for that division anyway. Earn your way to that higher division.

I'm sure it is more fun for the person with less skill to play with highly rated players, but in a tournament it's not always so much fun for those guys to play with the lesser skilled. If people want an opportunity to throw a round with a top pro, then we should add a pro-am day to bigger tournaments to give people that opportunity. The pros would be there for practice, advice, etc. and the ams (who should pay for the opportunity) can have the experience and play for some prizes/trophies.

 

[DavidSauls]

Injury could also be another reason somebody plays up. I've had a nagging one that has dropped my rating from 953 to 923 in about a year. If and when I get healthy I would still play advanced instead of intermediate.

Not sure if this has been mentioned or not already

Don't think it's been mentioned, and yes, I've seen this a fair number of times.

Add it to the list.

 

[Deebo4Discs]

Another thing too is that people always say "playing up will make you better" While I disagree, if youre going to a big event with tons of people why not play up at least for the experience? Especially if you think you might not place in your reccomended division?

Playing up sure helped me play and get better. Seeing how top players play and approach the game was the best experience I've gotten.

 

[Dcinmd]

This thread sounds like a bunch of insecure players that have been accused of bagging complaining.

The great thing about the current PDGA setup is that it fits everyone. If you want to play in higher level of competition for whatever reason you are allowed to. If you want to play your rating you are allowed to.

The one thing I cannot stand is people complaining about winning too much plastic. It means you should move up.

For me, I cannot stand the lack of basic golf edicate at the lower division. So I choose to play up a few divisions. I rather not spend 30 to 40 dollars to have to explain to someone that the disc furthest from the basket go first and do not stand is someone line to the basket.

 

[Dcinmd]

There's a big difference in sports than involve defense.

I consider the course and the weather conditions defense. Have you ever seen the moving tree on the course before?

 

[bradharris]

I consider the course and the weather conditions defense. Have you ever seen the moving tree on the course before?

So, in that case, it could be said that playing harder courses helps make you a better player because you have to learn how to overcome tougher challenges. Playing against better players doesn't have the same effect because they're not the ones playing defense.

 

[DavidSauls]

Except, apparently, in the ADGT, where defense is allowed, or at least was last time I read their rules.

 

[DavidSauls]

The great thing about the current PDGA setup is that it fits everyone. If you want to play in higher level of competition for whatever reason you are allowed to. If you want to play your rating you are allowed to.

That pretty well sums in it up.

At least for me.

 

[Jenks13]

I would like to address the original post. After reading through all of the posts I think there are a lot of good points in this thread. I am one of the 970 plus players that is in advanced and I can tell you my reasons.

1. The courses that are played.
2. The extra day I would have to take off work to play in the pro division.

I will probably being playing some pro tournaments this year because I do feel like moving up but I will not take cash until next year. This is my personal opinion and really I feel like it is up to the individual. One thing I would personally disagree with is the idea that playing with better people in or out of tourneys makes you better. That is only true if you listen to advice an practice what is taught. Most of my rounds are played with long time friends that are not highly rated but I put in my practice time and have steadily improved. We all have opinions but I just thought I would reply since it directly relates to my thoughts.

-Bryan

 

[ru4por]

So, in that case, it could be said that playing harder courses helps make you a better player because you have to learn how to overcome tougher challenges. Playing against better players doesn't have the same effect because they're not the ones playing defense.

Playing in tough, windy weather conditions makes you a better player? Playing in poor footwear, leading to blisters half way through the round, makes you a better player?..........

 

[DavidSauls]

Playing in tough, windy weather conditions makes you a better player? Playing in poor footwear, leading to blisters half way through the round, makes you a better player?..........

The former helps you work on your mental game, and the latter on your Stand-&-Deliver form.

 

[notroman]

My player rating is 931. I am MA2 by the numbers. I signed up for MA1 after much deliberation. I was going to sign up for MPO.

My rating is low because of lack of practice and a prior injury that set me back quite a bit. There are no excuses, my rating shows I play intermediate level golf now. My rating was, however, in the 970s and climbing a couple years ago before the injury and I feel that with practice I can get back to that level and beyond. I plan on spending time in the field this spring so it's very possible I'll be back to MA1 level by the time the tournament comes around in August. My rating may not climb there by then, who knows. I'm not going to sign up for MA2 just because my rating 931.

Here's one data point for you and I'm sure most of the people playing "out of their division" have their own stories and reasons.

 

[ru4por]

The former helps you work on your mental game, and the latter on your Stand-&-Deliver form.

Lol.....that was my point, all things, given the proper perspective, provide for the chance to make yourself a better player. The mental focus needed to dominate a division without competition. The challenge of bringing home a win after leading for a round. The distraction of playing with players unaware of rules and etiquette. All excellent takeaways from playing in some of the lower point threshold divisions.
Coming full circle to your post, pointing out that we all have the ability to take away different lessons from different circumstances.
I think for some to proclaim, better competition makes you better, is faulty for some.