Ledgestone Insurance Open

[@iDiscGolf]

Does Nikko know how emo he acts?

When he's in a good mood and things are going his way he's a cool cat, but otherwise, sheesh...

 

[araytx]

J


We are drifting off the OP, so I'm going to start a new thread to discuss that last question and related parts. If you feel it's worthy come on over to "Can a TD be wrong?" in a few minutes

There you go, Steve.

 

[Steve West]

I already did. Provisionals to save time have to meet the criteria as listed in 804.06.B.1. Optional re-throw is not among the listed criteria. Choosing to throw an optional re-throw over-rules whether the previous throw is OB or not, whether it is lost or not, or whether it missed a mando or not. What would the criteria be to prompt a provisional optional re-throw and what would be the objective determination over whether to play from the original throw or the re-throw?

Why do you keep looking in B? It's in A. Scroll up. Read the second sentence.

An optional re-throw is not a recourse for a rules dispute either. You are never disallowed from throwing one, so one should never be in doubt as to whether one is allowed to be thrown.

Even if it never should be in doubt, it was.

Most provisional situations could be figured out with certainty, given enough time. How long ago did this happen? You're still not clear on the rule. (Or I'm not; same point.) Do you think they should have been standing at the tee discussing it all this time?

To keep the doubt going (or to end it):

You are disallowed from re-teeing after going OB if the TD says you are disallowed. That's the reason the re-throw from the previous lie is listed in OB ssection. Why else would it be listed in OB rules if another rule already allows it? It's listed there so the rules can say explicitly that the TD can take it away.

If that doesn't cover it, 807 Experimental Rules does. TD can make any rule under that.

 

[araytx]

Why do you keep looking in B? It's in A. Scroll up. Read the second sentence.



Even if it never should be in doubt, it was.

Most provisional situations could be figured out with certainty, given enough time. How long ago did this happen? You're still not clear on the rule. (Or I'm not; same point.) Do you think they should have been standing at the tee discussing it all this time?

To keep the doubt going (or to end it):

You are disallowed from re-teeing after going OB if the TD says you are disallowed. That's the reason the re-throw from the previous lie is listed in OB ssection. Why else would it be listed in OB rules if another rule already allows it? It's listed there so the rules can say explicitly that the TD can take it away.

If that doesn't cover it, 807 Experimental Rules does. TD can make any rule under that.

My answer to that is simple. Because the current OB rule was written BEFORE the current optional re-throw rule. Logically, the most current should take precedent...if your assertion is they are on equal applicable with the OB one taking precedence. The change to optional re-throw was made since the current OB rule was made.

I believe it to be a slippery slope, but if the your assertion is that the PDGA means that "a TD can make any rule he/she wants," then they need to explicitly state so. There's nothing ambiguous about the phrase "at any time."

 

[armedtotheteeth]

Whole lotta aspies in this thread.

 

[araytx]

Whole lotta aspies in this thread.

WHOA! Where'd that come from?

Might wanna try to use pm effectively

 

[cheese dog]

2nd post hero huh? whats up td?

 

[Welch]

2nd post hero huh? whats up td?

Coming out swinging!

 

[araytx]

Coming out swinging!

yessir! Unless I misunderstand what an "aspie" is, that's a double diss coming from a 2-timer.

 

[DiscLoser1]

So...what did we learn?

Paul needs to read the caddy books. The entire Pro field needs to read the caddy books. Maybe carry them on the course? Seems like a no-brainer.

The entire Pro field needs to learn the rules and how to apply them.

TDs need to stop with the complicated OB rules that change from hole to hole.

Pro disc golf is a joke.

 

[@iDiscGolf]

So...what did we learn?

Paul needs to read the caddy books. The entire Pro field needs to read the caddy books. Maybe carry them on the course? Seems like a no-brainer.

The entire Pro field needs to learn the rules and how to apply them.

TDs need to stop with the complicated OB rules that change from hole to hole.

Pro disc golf is a joke.

Artificial boundaries and rules... Meh

 

[teemkey]

The basic problem is that 804.06 B(2) says a provisional can be thrown:

To appeal the group's or an official's ruling. A set of provisional throws may be taken to complete a hole as part of an appeal when the player disagrees with the group decision and an official is not readily available, or if the player wishes to appeal the decision of an official. The scores from both sets of throws shall be recorded. The proper ruling and score are then determined by the Director at the end of the round.

The caddie book says if the tee shot goes OB, the player *must* move to the drop zone, whereas the PDGA rule book says a player may rethrow from the previous lie at any time. Clearly a conflict where a player might throw a provisional if he believes the caddie book (aka "the official") to be in error.

However, 804.06 C states:

A provisional throw may not be subsequently declared to be an optional re-throw.

There's a clear conflict in the rules covering this situation regardless of the TD's ruling. 804.06 C should add a clause something like "unless the right to an optional rethrow is being appealed."

 

[Coryschu]

I'll try to put a positive spin on the thread Tomorrow: Paul, Cale, Nate, Cameron: that is a first rate, Classy card to close the tourney with ( although I admittedly know less about Cameron).

 

[BenBVDiscGolf]

1099 holly finley

did i read that right.
holly finley shot a 50 rated 1099 today?

wow.

 

[markmcc]

It looks like Holly Finley lit it up in FPO today. Shot 7 under to pull into a tie for 2nd (though the lead cards aren't in). Next best rounds so far are 2 under.

 

[sisyphus]

Pretty sure there's a real issue with the FPO ratings right now, but the scores are very impressive. We played the same course (Masters, Grands, Am Masters and Am Grands, etc). Best in MM1 was a 56, but we did struggle with a muddy hilly course (Megiddo) and a couple of downpours. Congrats to those ladies for managing that course well.
ps: Holly's 50 will certainly be over 1000 rated, but not up close to 1100.

 

[Consult20]

What's up with all the 999's for this event? Did a bunch of people just register for the player pack with no intention of playing? Is this a record for most number of 999's in an A-tier? Crazy.

Nice to see Holly light it up, hope she keeps it going tomorrow.

 

[DinosaurThunder]

So...what did we learn?

Paul needs to read the caddy books. The entire Pro field needs to read the caddy books. Maybe carry them on the course? Seems like a no-brainer.

The entire Pro field needs to learn the rules and how to apply them.

TDs need to stop with the complicated OB rules that change from hole to hole.

Pro disc golf is a joke.

We learned dgcr loves to debate rules and can't move on after a TD ruling

 

[lyleoross]

What fun this thread has become!

There seems to be a fundamental misunderstanding of sport here. A players job isn't to make posters on DGCR happy, it's to win the tournament. Paul is using the rules to his advantage and as long as he does that, good on him. He isn't the first nor the last to do so. If he is unclear on a point, or what's allowed, he is smart to take a provisional. Yep, he might spend five minutes trying to find the exact ruling, how stupid would that be? In a tournament players take whatever advantages the rules allow. This is why players take that meter when it puts them closer to the basket and say no thanks when it moves them away.

As an added bonus, if you use the rules and it pisses off your opponent, aka Nikko, at the same time... Double prizes! The notion that this means Paul is bad, evil, snail slime etc. Is too funny.

I will say, using players to decide if you can retee, bad idea. Read the rules, state your intent, if there is no descension, retee as a provisional.

 

[lyleoross]

Note, the number of times I've seen or participated in a rules disagreement where a player wants to get the best advantage is dozens. It is always a hoot to watch though.