PMantle
* Ace Member *
Not sure if there is a better thread than this to discuss it, but the PDGA Facebook thread with photos is a truly entertaining read. People pissed :lol:
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Making the mando and being behind it
- Thread starter drk229
- Start date
Cgkdisc
.:Hall of Fame Member:.
See post 120. Your body can be on or over the line including your disc while still in your hand. However, the disc must be released while on the same side of the line as your mark and cannot cross the restricted space while in flight.
Lots of pages to read through, but has horizontal "mandos" been addressed? Local Course (Lake Casitas) has a tree limb mando that many people throw up to, the disc flies over the mando on its way, but falls under the limb and its good as it passed under the limb.
This rule says its a vertical plane, ok. But it seems that mandos were drawn at times with horizontal planes too. How the heck do you play this? And who says it crossed the plane? Do we need spotters now? Such a weird ruling in my opinion. Seems we now need directional obstacles, out of bounds, and mandatory planes to build courses.
This rule says its a vertical plane, ok. But it seems that mandos were drawn at times with horizontal planes too. How the heck do you play this? And who says it crossed the plane? Do we need spotters now? Such a weird ruling in my opinion. Seems we now need directional obstacles, out of bounds, and mandatory planes to build courses.
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I'm not sure I get the picture, but would it work to have the restricted vertical plane start at the limb and go straight up?
Mandos have never been drawn with horizontal planes. A horizontal plane is a plane that's parallel to the ground, like the ceiling of a room.
What you are trying to describe is a vertical plane with the bottom edge being a horizontal object. All triple mandos in disc golf already work this way and will continue to work this way with the new rules.
How do you tell if a disc crossed the plane? Pretty much the same way you already do. How do you tell if a disc has missed the mando in the 2018 rules?
It's not. People just don't seem to understand words that describe geometry very well i.e. vertical plane.
Additionally the rule was clearly written by someone who also does not understand these geometric terms.
- "The restricted space is a vertical plane marked by one or more objects or other markers which define the edges of the space."
-- This needs to read two or more objects, if a mando only has one object defining the start of the vertical plane, there needs to be a second that ends it, or else your plane technically goes around the globe and there is no viable route. This is just being nitpicky since common sense tells us that wouldn't make sense for the sport.
- "If a part of a thrown disc clearly enters into a restricted space, the player receives one penalty throw."
-- This doesn't really make sense, based on the definition of the "restricted space." As far as I am concerned, a 3D object cannot "enter" a 2D plane (don't get me started on calling a 2D plane "space" to begin with). This would be easily corrected with "If a part of a thrown disc clearly passes through the restricted space (plane)..."
The line of play changes did not help clear things up either.
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Those are cogent criticisms.
One thing no one anticipated was that some would interpret the planes as always coming out from the objects on the line of play. Which would make a triple mando an invisibile hallway starting at the tee. Sure, a TD could define it that way, but why would anyone think that all mandos have been rotated 90 degrees?
A few of the angry responses ("How can I tell if it breaks a plane parallel to the line of play?") are based on this incorrect interpretation.
The plane does not need another object to define the other end. It can continue on forever. It does need a way to designate the direction it goes. Which could be another object, or a line.
As for the "around the earth" idea, it's been dealt with for LOP, too. (Someone trying to take optional relief around the world back to inches from the target.)
The response to that is that either the LOP is a straight line which shoots off into space, or (to be inclusive) the earth is flat.
The same logic applies to planes that go off forever; they don't wrap around.
I appear to have been too globo-centric on my definition of straight line. Shooting tangent off the planet certainly works.
Flat earth would have a weird issue where LOPs that ran north-south would be straight lines, but east-west would be a big circle.
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You don't want to peak behind that curtain. You'd never eat sausage again.
You can't come to rest on the vertical plane. It's 2D. You can come to rest through it, but if your disc is touching the line that defines the projected edge on the ground, then you are through the plane.
If- on the reachback into the restricted plane and you start your pull, you drop your disc ( hands wet
or you hit a limb) is the drop considered the release?
If so that would confirm that the disc is in play from the moment propulsion begins.
So with this new rule change where it is not in play until release in this situation, doesn't that make 802.01a moot?
or you hit a limb) is the drop considered the release?
If so that would confirm that the disc is in play from the moment propulsion begins.
So with this new rule change where it is not in play until release in this situation, doesn't that make 802.01a moot?
krupicka
Double Eagle Member
Some of the discussions in the RC on rule changes go on for a very long time. We tend to move slow. Matching the OB line verbiage happened later in the discussions and the scenario of how to mark when on the line was missed when we did that, hence the update that just came out to make partially breaking the plane a missed mando. Of course this was also missed by every layer of review (staff, BOD, public) until after the 2022 edition was published.
krupicka
Double Eagle Member
I had stated "start your pull" meaning the disc dropped out during the propulsion forward beyond the restricted plane. That Q&A just deals with reachback.
You guys got a tough job. I do not envy you all.
krupicka
Double Eagle Member
Got it. The release is when it comes out of your hand regardless if that was the precise part of your forward swing you wished to release it. 802.01.A still has applicability for other rules and as a general description of the game. Just not as needed now for 804.01.
Thanks Mike. Things get missed--particularly when the idea or subject has a long discussion life. Things that we think we covered are not revisited and they become the "oh" moment.
I think Chuck brought it up early on, but taking a meter off the plane in the direction the disc came from seems pretty straight forward or the alternative is any penetration of the plane is a missed mando. Just my .02.
