Maple Hill Open

[JC17393]

Its the bolded part that bothers me. Flip the scenario around, put Rick's disc there and Paul says its in and Rick says its out. because we have a culture in our sport of trying to "get your strokes wherever you can", or try not to take any penalty strokes if you can argue your way out of it, as opposed to other sports that play from the spirit of the game, call their own violations on themselves, and things like that.

To be clear, I'm not really arguing that players should decide based on emotion rather than objective observation. My point is that it if you feel you are correct (regardless of which side you fall and how you may benefit from the call), don't back down. Nothing worse, IMO, than thinking a disc is OB or in-bounds and not voicing that opinion even if you're over-ruled. That goes whether it's your disc or not. Rick was right to call it OB if he thought it was OB, just as Paul was correct to argue he wasn't if he didn't think he was. Reverse the positions and I feel the same way.

Nothing to do with gaming opponents or stealing strokes or whatever you want to call it. Call it like you see it and stand by your call. If that means 5 minutes of deliberations before the group settles on provisionals, so be it.

 

[Pbmercil]

To be clear, I'm not really arguing that players should decide based on emotion rather than objective observation. My point is that it if you feel you are correct (regardless of which side you fall and how you may benefit from the call), don't back down. Nothing worse, IMO, than thinking a disc is OB or in-bounds and not voicing that opinion even if you're over-ruled. That goes whether it's your disc or not. Rick was right to call it OB if he thought it was OB, just as Paul was correct to argue he wasn't if he didn't think he was. Reverse the positions and I feel the same way.

Nothing to do with gaming opponents or stealing strokes or whatever you want to call it. Call it like you see it and stand by your call. If that means 5 minutes of deliberations before the group settles on provisionals, so be it.

Yeah, absolutely. I agree 100%. I just don't see people playing it that way very often.

 

[hook_nuts]

That's the point I'm trying to make. In disc golf we have this ridiculous culture in tournament play at EVERY level that if you can find ANY slight grey area to try and argue an OB call then you argue it to the death. Though I can certainly appreciate the value of ropes, we don't need to rope EVERY OB area. But inevitably, any time there is a non roped OB area someone will land in it and use the fact that there isn't a rope to try and find any amount of wiggle room to justify an inbounds call.

I don't want to put too fine a point on it as I'm not 100% sure what the caddy book says, so its hard to know exactly what's up. Plus I'm at work watching and wasn't paying super close attention.

Does that LOOK like a swamp to you? Then its out of bounds weather its wet, dry, mostly muddy, or watery puddles of mud, none of that matters. It looked like a swamp to me.

Here's a thought:
If you're playing a course on a lake and the hole instructions say "Lake is OB", and you're drive lands clearly IN the lake, but there happens to be a small rock 20 feet out from shore that is just sticking out of the water enough to hold your disc above water, are you now inbounds? HOW DO YOU KNOW IF WE DON'T HAVE ANY ROPES!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

The people there couldn't even determine if it's a swamp. If they can't determine it's a swamp how do they determine it's out of bounds and where to drop it in bounds? For the provisional shot they had to guess what might be in bounds for his drop. You think that's right? That's having to assume too many things that should be factual. If it's not clearly marked off as ob then you can't determine ob there. Ricky slowed down the round and tried his best to stroke the champ, but it sounds like the right call was made. No worries.

 

[sandelius]

So McBeth's swamp shot was not ob? lol

 

[Sir-Hucks-A-Lot]

Disc karma. I watched Ricky and Nikko argue OB after OB call against Paul and Feldberg at last year's JO until they were blue in the face. Paul generally let them have them, which definitely had an impact on all of their paydays. Doubt goes to the player, which is usually the case unless there are hard lines.

 

[KniceZ]

So how big of a margin will Mcbeth win by?

Was Climo this dominate? Yeah he won 12 world championships but was he winning by such large margins?

 

[Halcón]

Paul might not win this one. There's still a lot of golf left.

 

[Khao Pra]

So how big of a margin will Mcbeth win by?

Was Climo this dominate? Yeah he won 12 world championships but was he winning by such large margins?

climo left everyone behind, nearly every time. some of his scores at worlds were double digit lower than second place. 20 year record of cashing in every event. he wasn't even close to the longest driver on tour.

 

[Karl]

This whole thing about water being OB...if it's marked as such, fine; if the TD mentions it, fine; if neither those two, it's NOT OB. Just because it's water doesn't mean it's OB!

 

[oddjob]

Paul might not win this one. There's still a lot of golf left.

It's ovah.

 

[hook_nuts]

This whole thing about water being OB...if it's marked as such, fine; if the TD mentions it, fine; if neither those two, it's NOT OB. Just because it's water doesn't mean it's OB!

It wasn't even in water, just a mucky area.

 

[Khao Pra]

It's ovah.

expecting some heavy rain tonight and periods of rain tomorrow with temp around 60. holes 2 through 7 and hole 9 are all thick woods. anything can happen.

 

[JC17393]

So how big of a margin will Mcbeth win by?

Was Climo this dominate? Yeah he won 12 world championships but was he winning by such large margins?

Climo was dominant and he dominated. This document lists margin of victory at each Worlds: 1, 10, 9, 4, 18, 4, 3, 7, 4, 8, 14, and 5 were Climo's margins of victory in his 12 Open World Championships.

 

[Khao Pra]

It wasn't even in water, just a mucky area.

those are wetlands. they are expecting heavy rain overnight and rain throughout the final round. whether it's designated OB or not, i bet most would rather take a stroke than have to play out of there.

 

[Khao Pra]

Climo was dominant and he dominated. This document lists margin of victory at each Worlds: 1, 10, 9, 4, 18, 4, 3, 7, 4, 8, 14, and 5 were Climo's margins of victory in his 12 Open World Championships.

exactly. and those are just world's results. he did the same thing at majors and A tiers week after week.

 

[hook_nuts]

those are wetlands. they are expecting heavy rain overnight and rain throughout the final round. whether it's designated OB or not, i bet most would rather take a stroke than have to play out of there.

You realize the object is to shot as low of a score as possible? McBeth didn't even have to get his shoes muddy, but even if it pours I think about everyone would trade muddy shoes to save a stroke. That's not really relevant to ib/ob anyway.

 

[the_lung]

TD Steve Dodge asks that we keep discussing Swampgate, because any press is good press.

 

[bbwrenn]

he wasn't even close to the longest driver on tour.

Somewhat of a misconception. You're definitely not wrong, but I just wouldn't want people to get the idea Climo was this guy who only threw 350 and put it in a 5 foot circle every time if they weren't around to see it. In his prime from '90 to 2000 he was one of the longer throwers simply based on age and form alone. He regularly powered stingrays, cobras, and then cheetahs to 400+ as those discs were released. The majority of people, including the pros then, will never do that.

Was he at the top of distance though, no, not at all. Even Barry threw farther on average and he's not considered a crusher either. (Still does throw farther unless I'm mistaken.)

 

[Khao Pra]

Somewhat of a misconception. You're definitely not wrong, but I just wouldn't want people to get the idea Climo was this guy who only threw 350 and put it in a 5 foot circle every time if they weren't around to see it. In his prime from '90 to 2000 he was one of the longer throwers simply based on age and form alone. He regularly powered stingrays, cobras, and then cheetahs to 400+ as those discs were released. The majority of people, including the pros then, will never do that.

Was he at the top of distance though, no, not at all. Even Barry threw farther on average and he's not considered a crusher either. (Still does throw farther unless I'm mistaken.)

i'm well aware because i played dozens of events against him all around the world. there were literally dozens of players on tour who were throwing well past him in that decade though, but nobody had the complete game that he had. his putting under pressure was phenomenal.

 

[paulw]

Jay Klein -- ace on basket 8, Yay!