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[MVP] MVP Disc Sports (Official Thread) (Part V)
- Thread starter Three Putt
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Sounds like your Relay is before they moved in house. When they moved them in house, they were flying almost 0/2, like the PP Craves were. Now that both are in house though, they fly much more similarly for the most recent releases. I wouldn't bag both of the new runs.
I have a somewhat long history of complaining about and to MVP when they "reconditioned" the Crave when they moved production in house. When I first saw the flight numbers they put on them as 6.5/5/-1/1, I was super confused. I had never had a Crave fly with -1 turn. I always called my Craves 7/5/0/1.5. I didn't buy one until the Hokom Craves were released. It flew almost identical to my PP Relays. 7/5/-2/1 is what I would call it. It was so much like my Relays that I just swapped out my Relay I was carrying at the time for it.
When the newer run of Hokoms was released, I heard a few people saying they were more stable, so I risked it when I found a gorgeous swirly grey one. It flies true to the flight numbers, but still isn't stable like the PP Craves. To me, the Hokoms, and probably all runs made in house, shouldn't even be called Craves anymore. They're different discs. Even the more stable current Hokoms are terrible in a headwind, where the PP ones were still great.
All that being said, I've got the newer Hokom in my bag currently, because I'm just using the Wrath as my stable driver/fairway and using the Hokom like a slightly more stable Relay for turnovers, hyzerfilps, etc. I am hoping when the Rhythm finally releases it will be closer to what the original Craves were, maybe even a little more stable.
Patent Pending
None of the PP molds fit their new machines, so they had to make new molds to fit. They "reconditioned" most of them to "fly as intended". There were several molds that were way off their flight numbers when they did this. Resistor, Crave, Relay, and Volt were probably the most dramatic. It seems they've adjusted either their cooling times, or the mold for the Crave and Relay since, and they've gotten better in recent runs. The Volt is back to being stable as it was when first released, but for awhile the PP Volts were flying much less stable than the current runs.
How could you not consider the Envy a fairway? Don't you throw it off the tee, into the fairway? I guess a lot of times, it lands in the basket, not the fairway, so it's still a putter off the tee in that case?
Fair--regional wind conditions probably make a big difference in our assessment. In Vermont, I really only play one course where wind is an issue throughout a round (Fox Run), and there its usually photon -> envy/zone for most of the holes. I think my new craves do great in the wind for a neutral/straight disc (with the flat top I think they outperform similar discs in the class like beefy leopards, fds etc), but we probably have different ideas of windy.
In calm conditions, my 2nd run Hokum is very close to a PP plasma in flight, and very different from a relay. 1st run Hokum is much closer to a relay (but its also weird and squirrelly, relays have a smooth "gyro-y" turn even when overpowered, that run of craves just burns).
Agree on the fr Hokoms being more squirrelly than the Relays.
And yeah, TX wind is no joke, and my PP Craves tended to handle it much better than the current Hokoms. They're fine for calmer conditions, but when the wind picks up, I pretty much just throw my Wrath or Resistor now.
You are absolutely right. I love it! Missed you round here haha.
The PP craves were straight flying beef. I haven't thrown the new ones, I got a couple for wind resistance after playing/winning a doubles tourney in Vancouver and getting hammered by the wind. I never really got the turny line shaping vibe others were talking about, more like straight laser. I went to lightweight domey fission volts they fly closer to my PP volts but 8g lighter. I think if I had more power I would have had better results, I moved towards Volts after Wolfey threw my crave way better than I can up #24.
it was just one of those discs I packed but didn't throw often. The volt gets more air time since I can bend it better.I sent Streets my cosmic volt, I owed him one. Then I got a cosmic 174 plasma same colours in my gyropalooza box haha which I sold to my buddy.
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You are absolutely right. I love it! Missed you round here haha.
The PP craves were straight flying beef. I haven't thrown the new ones, I got a couple for wind resistance after playing/winning a doubles tourney in Vancouver and getting hammered by the wind. I never really got the turny line shaping vibe others were talking about, more like straight laser. I went to lightweight domey fission volts they fly closer to my PP volts but 8g lighter. I think if I had more power I would have had better results, I moved towards Volts after Wolfey threw my crave way better than I can up #24.
I sent Streets my cosmic volt, I owed him one. Then I got a cosmic 174 plasma same colours in my gyropalooza box haha which I sold to my buddy.
Thanks! I missed being around. Been a crazy hectic few years, especially with the pandemic. I know a lot of people started playing, but I changed careers and spent a lot of time buried in code learning to be a developer, so barely had time to think about dg, let alone get out and play. Finally settled now, so hopefully I can get back into it more consistently and get some of my distance back.
jakebake91
* Ace Member *
Fwiw....
"Reconditioning" a mold to fit a new mold doesn't mean anything about making a new mold, or altering the molding surfaces in the slightest.
I'm sure all they had to do was alter an ejection knockout pattern, maybe tweak a sprue radius, sprue bushing, maybe change out some water fittings. I think maybe they added some air poppets. Nothing major at all, and nothing that affected the shape of the discs at all. I listened to the lab report on what was going on, and based on my considerable experience in the field, I had a pretty good understanding as to what they are saying.
The differences in the discs are 99% caused by new processes on new machines. Nothing from actually retooling a mold.
I hope you are right. From what it sounded like to me though, there were a few discs they weren't happy with the flight of, and wanted them to be more "as intended". The Volt was one of those, that had gotten much more understable than intended. Molds break from time to time, I'm guessing variations in the molds over the years caused it to actually be a little different, and they returned it to its intended flight.
But it's also hard to see with the Crave. PP Craves almost always (with a very few exceptions) had 0 turn, yet when they added flight numbers, they had -1 turn. Seems like MVP didn't want the Crave to fly like it always had. I can't imagine them using the same mold if they wanted it to fly differently. In either case, it doesn't seem to me that they'll be fixing the Crave to have 0 turn, since they stamped -1 on the plate, so I'm still going to be mad at them for it.
By me proceses, are you talking cool down times? Injection speed? New plastic formulas? I wish DG companies would film more how it's made videos. I wanna see behind the curtains.
Sent from my SM-G986U using Tapatalk
jakebake91
* Ace Member *
All of the above, probably. Clamping pressure is another one. Switching parameters from one type/brand/style of machine to another isnt always straightforward, either.
jakebake91
* Ace Member *
I'm guessing that was all due to parameter changes. Not saying the couldn't have or didn't tweak the actual geometry of the disc, but I'm guessing it's highly unlikely. It's expensive and somewhat risky to make modifications like that for something fairly trivial.
Also.....short of dropping a bomb on it, molds usually don't just "break". Unless they were the cheapest made aluminum things ever. Which I'm guessing MVP knew better than to do. Or that have a billion shots on them. The shop I used to work at had a mold built in the early 80's, that pumped out several thousand parts a year and was still kicking. Ugly as sin, but pumped out parts.
The notion of a mold breaking beyond repair just from normal cycles is incredibly unlikely. I've even seen one dropped, 3 separate times, from a height of probably 30 feet, onto a concrete floor. Basically just sustained cosmetic damage and a minor bent guide pin. Mold was fine.
Never made discs, but I'm happy to try and "peel back the curtain" as best I can as far as molds and injection molding goes.
They did spend a giant amount of money on some climate control for the new Factory. They did share a post about that
I might be remembering incorrectly, I thought I saw someone on the MVP Facebook talk about a mold breaking, but that might have been a guess and not real data.
But thanks for the insight!
jakebake91
* Ace Member *
I mean, it's not impossible. I just don't know really how it happens, without some seriously shoddy toolmaking. You're talking a several hundred pound chunk of steel. Things can break, (like ejector pins or slides or things like that) but it's hard to foresee anything breaking beyond repair. Again, unless they had a suuuuperrr cheap prototype mold built or something.
But it's hard to say for certain. I'm just taking educated guesses.
And you're quite welcome! I love to geek out on this stuff whenever I can haha.
Mine flies very similarly to my Servos. But from the description, I do feel like my Clash might be a little more neutral than the target stability. It takes a very leisurely approach to fighting out of a turn. The newer Servo (have both with and without flight numbers) might even be more Clashy than the Clash if we're going by the ideal.
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