National Tour folds into DGPT

[natedg1976]

Don't rock the boat.

If you consider all DGPT has on their plate, it's obvious they are running full tilt to keep up.

They could screw it up by being greedy and messing with post pro, but that would be EXTREMELY short sited. They aren't close to ready to take over that market.

There is a lot of love for those that provide that coverage and they could absolutely ruin any support they have today.

The PDGA gets knocked as "big brother " of DG, and DGPT risks being seen as BB2.

This is a sport where people do stuff (volunteer). because they love it. All entities seeking to monetize it should tread lightly.

Look at the post pros. Patreon support but volunteer giving while still delivering significant content. I'm sure it's been tough for those folks, but damn they are doing a great job on a shoestring budget.

I personally think DGN is delivering solid content as well. Live coverage if disc golf? I guess I'm old because 20-30 years ago live coverage was 3-4 channels if high dollar network tv.

When someone says the coverage sucks, I know they are a millennial or younger.

Watch a grainy one angle vhs tape from some tournament 6 months ago and get back to me.

Ok boomer. What a joke of a read.

 

[BuiltTooLong]

Until live numbers get anywhere close to post production, I don't think we will see big third party advertisers signing on for spots in live coverage.

Jomez can't even make it on YT views, they need the Patreon support.

It would be interesting to see if the DGPT subscribers actually cover their annual operational costs for coverage.

I think a bigger push in the near future will be finding more third party sponsors for the actual tournaments, or finding corporate partners/sponsors for the entire tour.

Do you have access to the Jomez books? I don't, but I'm fairly certain they would still be able to operate if Patreon suddenly wasn't an option. The Patreon seems like a bonus to me, its free money, why wouldn't they have a Patreon regardless of how much YouTube revenue they generate?

 

[dehaas]

Amateur entry fees shouldn't be used at pro tour events. As a matter of fact amateur entry fees shouldn't be used for the pro purse at any event.

Ah, I wasn't meaning that to come across as am fees. I was referring to the "local pro" cash donors.

Somebody else was implying if the PDGA was stepping away from NT and majors would that eventually lead to DGPT events with a more definite line of what an actual professional is, basically making those events more exclusive to play. So you'd be filtering out all those people who pay the extra couple bucks in PDGA fees as a pro, who are essentially donating their tournament entry fees to the real pros cashing consistently.

 

[natedg1976]

Ah, I wasn't meaning that to come across as am fees. I was referring to the "local pro" cash donors.

Somebody else was implying if the PDGA was stepping away from NT and majors would that eventually lead to DGPT events with a more definite line of what an actual professional is, basically making those events more exclusive to play. So you'd be filtering out all those people who pay the extra couple bucks in PDGA fees as a pro, who are essentially donating their tournament entry fees to the real pros cashing consistently.

Ok. This makes a lot more sense to me. I made 4 donation entries this year. Lol. I'm an advocate of an am disc golf association completely separate from the PDGA where you can earn money as an am, but not as much money as a pro. Minor league baseball type of thing. For years amateurs have been the lifeblood of the PDGA and those ams get very little for it. With this merger maybe the PDGA will start to actually care about the ones that have kept them afloat for all these years.

 

[ru4por]

It's a weird transition.

For a long time, disc golf was one thing. What the PDGA did was important to me; they wanted my donation at an A-tier and they wanted me to volunteer to TD an A tier. The Open divisions were just part of the overall thing, and I was part of that overall thing.

That wasn't the goal, though. The goal was for disc golf to go big-time and have Open Pro divisions as its own thing. The events would be run by people with actual event-organizing qualifications instead of whoever a club suckered into doing it. They would be restricted to only Open Pro players. At that point, what the PDGA would or wouldn't do so far as those Open Pro divisions wouldn't matter so much. It would be like the NBA allowing 6 personal fouls in a game; I might like it or I might not like it, but the fat man rim clankers league still only allows five so whatever. It doesn't really effect me.

So we are there, I guess. The PDGA is turning over the running of events that I'm not supposed to play in and not supposed to be organizing. It's not one big disc golf family anymore; they have their other thing and this all has to do with that thing. I could have an opinion, but it's not my circus and not my monkeys so whatever.

I kind of wonder what is to become of the Open players in my area. Are we still supposed to run our A, B, C tier events with an Open division. As a club, looking to make money (nonprofit, so money back to my disc golf community) I would love nothing more that to lose the Open divisions. They are, by far, the most painful...EVERY TIME. I don't see the DGPT doing anything for them, only the 100 top players in the world. If you look at it that way....maybe it is not such a big deal?

 

[dehaas]

Ok. This makes a lot more sense to me. I made 4 donation entries this year. Lol. I'm an advocate of an am disc golf association completely separate from the PDGA where you can earn money as an am, but not as much money as a pro. Minor league baseball type of thing. For years amateurs have been the lifeblood of the PDGA and those ams get very little for it. With this merger maybe the PDGA will start to actually care about the ones that have kept them afloat for all these years.

Yeah, I'm not sure what the best solution would be. Keep the am and pro classifications and maybe make the DGPT elite series events more exclusive? Have a minimum rating, number of tour points, or invite only? Use the silver series events as your minor league opportunity where your lower tier pros play enough and earn their way into the elite series?

Or just start from scratch and redesign the whole dynamic between pro/am status, am divisions, and event structure?

 

[Three Putt]

I kind of wonder what is to become of the Open players in my area. Are we still supposed to run our A, B, C tier events with an Open division. As a club, looking to make money (nonprofit, so money back to my disc golf community) I would love nothing more that to lose the Open divisions. They are, by far, the most painful...EVERY TIME. I don't see the DGPT doing anything for them, only the 100 top players in the world. If you look at it that way....maybe it is not such a big deal?

I think Woj mentioned that he could imagine a reshuffling where those top Open players and your local Open players are slotted differently. Right now that seems somewhat difficult as here locally we have players like Andrew Presnell who is a regular at DGPT events and still has shown up to win some B tiers in this area. Zackeriath Johnson was at at least one B tier I was aware of this spring. So there is still some overlap with DGPT-level players and our local events, and I can't imagine a scenario where they wouldn't be allowed to show up for a local event. So I'm not sure exactly what he envisioned happening, but if DGPT puts in some sort of ratings cut-off everyone below that playing Open would de-facto be a second-class Open player.

That second-class of Open players will still depend on local clubs to provide the events they play in. I'm not sure how or if lifting the imagined "we have to support these guys" payout situation (no one will be trying to make a living hitting B tiers anymore) will effect the way payouts are approached. I heard a kazillion times in the 90's that "we are never going to get Climo here if we don't have better payouts"*. Now you are not going to get McBeth to your event no matter how outrageous you make your payout, and everybody knows it so no one has to try anymore.

*we never got Climo to come to our event, anyway.

 

[brutalbrutus]

2022 schedule is out...

https://www.dgpt.com/announcements/the-disc-golf-pro-tour-announces-2022-schedule/

The Disc Golf Pro Tour is pleased to release its 2022 Schedule, all events sanctioned as PDGA Elite Series. The schedule includes a total of 15 events; 12 regular-season events, 2 playoff events, plus the DGPT Championship and adds to the previously announced PDGA Major schedule to create a 20 event pro tour for 2022. The Silver Series will return in a similar fashion to the DGPT, with events on the series offering reduced DGPT points and gaining enhanced media coverage. That schedule is planned to be announced on November 1.

The 2022 schedule is similar to the 2021 version. "This process is always challenging, and we prioritized sustainability and simplicity for 2022 as much of our focus went to securing our partnership with the PDGA," said Jeff Spring, DGPT CEO & Director. "One focus was working backward to Emporia to allow ease of travel to the PDGA Pro Worlds, which has been scheduled on that date for over 10 months. We wanted to make it easy for players to get there."

Former National Tour Events, The Master's Cup, and the Beaver State Fling are set to be on the Silver Series schedule while discussions continue to include the Music City Open. The Delaware Disc Golf Challenge will not be a DGPT event in 2022 as they look to take a year off from elite competition. The DGPT also plans to head to Europe in 2022, after the COVID-19 pandemic canceled the planned debut at the 2021 PCS Sula Open in Norway. Information regarding the European inclusion on the DGPT schedule will be shared when the Silver Series is announced.

A new addition to the DGPT schedule is a playoff format for the final two events, the Green Mountain Championship, and the MVP Open at Maple Hill. While final details will be announced, these events will see the field sizes reduced as the Tour blazes a path to the DGPT Championship. "I expect the men's field to be cut down to around 100 for the GMC and 80 when we get to Maple Hill, and the women's field to go from 50 to 40." Said Spring. "This will set the stage for a dramatic weekend in Leicester, MA to determine not only DGPT Points Champions but who qualifies for the Tour Championship."

Final details of the new Playoff format changes to the Points Series and updated Tour Standards will be released in the coming months. One change to the Point Series will be the inclusion of the PDGA Majors as points events. "We're thrilled to include the PDGA majors as heavyweights in the Points Series," said Spring. "The DGPT standings influence everything on tour, and we are working hard to reformat how all events are weighted to bring a cohesive effort with the PDGA to this new era in disc golf."

Las Vegas Challenge – February 24-27
Waco Annual Charity Open – March 11-13
Texas State Disc Golf Championships – March 25-27
PDGA Champions Cup (PDGA Major) – April 13-17
Jonesboro Open – April 22-24
Dynamic Discs Open – April 28-May 1
OTB Open – May 20-22
Portland Open – June 3-5
The Preserve Championship – June 24-26
United States Women's Disc Golf Championship (PDGA Major) – July 1-3
Idlewild Open – July 8-10
European Open (PDGA Major) – July 21-24
Great Lakes Open – July 29-31
Ledgestone Insurance Open – August 11-14
Des Moines Challenge – August 19-21
PDGA Professional World Championships (PDGA Major) – August 30-September 3
Green Mountain Championship* – September 15-18
MVP Open at Maple Hill* – September 22-25
United States Disc Golf Championship (PDGA Major) – October 5-8
Disc Golf Pro Tour Championship – October 13-16

 

[dehaas]

That's gotta be a pain logistically trying to juggle dates and locations when one city hosts two events in the same season.

I know it's happened in Emporia and Peoria both in recent years, and probably makes it a bit easier since they're both in the midwest. More meaning it's a pain if you're an event within a couple hours of worlds, since date and location is subject to change it kinda forces your hand on choosing the date.

 

[dreadlock86]

it's absolutely retarded to schedule a Pro Tour event the weekend after a European major

 

[Jimb]

it's absolutely retarded to schedule a Pro Tour event the weekend after a European major

What if a lot of players aren't making the trip in either direction and they can still have loaded fields at both? Serious question... not trying to be a jerk.

 

[TurnedOver]

What if a lot of players aren't making the trip in either direction and they can still have loaded fields at both? Serious question... not trying to be a jerk.

It will certainly work out this way with only 5 days between events.

 

[brutalbrutus]

it's absolutely retarded to schedule a Pro Tour event the weekend after a European major

Idlewild was stuck in that postion in 17 and 18 iirc. It definitely hurt the attendance

 

[ru4por]

it's absolutely retarded to schedule a Pro Tour event the weekend after a European major

Given the current reluctance and difficulties in air travel, this might be irrelevant.

 

[nothinbuttree]

Its not hard to imagine, IF DG in general continues to grow in popularity and monetary infusion, that there could be multiple tours, similar to professional ball golf (and even NASCAR), each at slightly lower talent levels.

The current Silver Series could end up adding a significant number of events, and be the next tour down, even to the point of events being contested the same weekend as DGPT events (which would be required pretty quickly, given the weather-dependent nature of DG in many parts of the country, though adding a couple Ice Bowls as Silver Series events would be so cool (pardon the pun). This would of course lead to fewer players at the top level events, which is fine, because I imagine many players prefer competing in events with similarly talented players, not those mostly 40-75 points above their rating, where their chance of winning is extremely low.

I would love to see more tourneys covered each year, because while I enjoy many of the DPGT events, some are boring to watch, and I also like seeing new courses, mainly to see if I want to add them to my must play list.

 

[JRW III]

Amateur entry fees shouldn't be used at pro tour events. As a matter of fact amateur entry fees shouldn't be used for the pro purse at any event.

I agree with this statement. But what I usually see is the TD's profit from the AMs being used for the Pro's. Example: There is a large B-Tier that I like to attend every year. As an Rec AM player, it is effectively no payout and token player pack. The TD makes a good profit off of me, which I assume he uses to fund the Pro purse. I don't mind as much because 1) The TD puts on a great event and I value the experience and 2) It is full disclosure and my choice to sign up. He makes a profit off of me, and it is his choice to keep the profit for himself or put the profit he earned into the Pro purse.

 

[Nova P]

I'm glad to see Des Moines on the big tour again in 2022. They really stepped up to the plate and hit a dinger in 2021.

 

[dehaas]

Any chance we see all of those elite events drop the am component, or at least move it to a consecutive weekend?

Asking that because it would mean you've got a ton more people to pay to spectate, volunteer, or better yet…make them pay to volunteer and receive a limited release disc or two.

 

[brutalbrutus]

Its not hard to imagine, IF DG in general continues to grow in popularity and monetary infusion, that there could be multiple tours, similar to professional ball golf (and even NASCAR), each at slightly lower talent levels.

The current Silver Series could end up adding a significant number of events, and be the next tour down, even to the point of events being contested the same weekend as DGPT events (which would be required pretty quickly, given the weather-dependent nature of DG in many parts of the country, though adding a couple Ice Bowls as Silver Series events would be so cool (pardon the pun). This would of course lead to fewer players at the top level events, which is fine, because I imagine many players prefer competing in events with similarly talented players, not those mostly 40-75 points above their rating, where their chance of winning is extremely low.

I would love to see more tourneys covered each year, because while I enjoy many of the DPGT events, some are boring to watch, and I also like seeing new courses, mainly to see if I want to add them to my must play list.

I'm waiting for a "winter" tour to start. 4-6 events Mid-late november thru mid late January.

Ice Bowls can be fun under the right circumstances. Strangely, the funnest i ever did was Columbus in arctic conditions. When me and my buddy signed up on that tuesday it was supposed to be in the mid 50s and by the time friday rolled around the forecast had changed to 0 degreed at teeoff, lol. It was also windy. I think the official wind chill that morning was -14 at 9:30am.

At one point i went to take a drink of water and it was so cold, the water sloshing around had frozen into an ice dome under the neck of the bottle lol.

 

[txmxer]

I agree with this statement. But what I usually see is the TD's profit from the AMs being used for the Pro's. Example: There is a large B-Tier that I like to attend every year. As an Rec AM player, it is effectively no payout and token player pack. The TD makes a good profit off of me, which I assume he uses to fund the Pro purse. I don't mind as much because 1) The TD puts on a great event and I value the experience and 2) It is full disclosure and my choice to sign up. He makes a profit off of me, and it is his choice to keep the profit for himself or put the profit he earned into the Pro purse.

This is baffling.

We have several people on here that are apparently well respected for how they run events. They say it's not unusual to come out of pocket for an event. They do it for the love if the game.

OTOH. you say they are profiting.

I'm in the dark. Are these TDS lying and running dg events is mad money?