NEED HELP

[Scoot_er]

You are telling me Wiggins and Nikko are strong? Even Feldberg isnt that big and I saw him put an Eagle 18' from the pin down a "hallway" fairway on a 509' par 4. (#11 Hornets Nest) Its technique. You are right, most players aren't throwing a tee bird 400 ft. Its because most disc golfers have terrible technique.

490' down THIS!!! Climo, Ulibari, and Nikko weren't that far back either.

http://www.dgcoursereview.com/course_pics/176/808c55c9.jpg

IDK about Wiggy but Nikko is pretty damn strong for his size.......and this is coming from a guy who sparred with him a few times.

 

[garublador]

you are saying that if we all threw perfect, we'd drive a Tbird 400'?

No, if we all threw perfectly we'd be throwing them closer to 450'.

huh?
i bet 8 out of 10 DG'ers cant throw a Tbird (fairway driver) more than 325'
let alone a katana more than 350' (maybe 375'....)

in an open field, i max out @ 410+/-

Probably true, but 8/10 disc golfers have crappy to mediocre form.

Technique gets you a long way... but there is a reason why the top pro's work out in weight rooms.

Because they're professional athletes and any advantage they have will help. It's not why they throw as far as they do.

maybe your 15 years of experience, and disc golf social circle are super advanced and your words are correct, but for the rest of the dg world, it's not as simple as you say.

I didn't say anyone meeting the specs I laid out can throw that far or should expect to ever throw that far, >99% won't, just that they have the physical strength to do so given really good techniqe. I never claimed it was simple either. It's the most difficult thing to teach in disc golf. If it were only a matter of working out a lot more people would be throwing that far and a lot easier to accomplish.

Most everyone can get to 350' or so with fairway drivers. It requires pretty good mechanics, which aren't super hard to get with a little work, and OK timing. The difference between most of us and those throwing fariway drivers >400' is timing. You don't even need good mechanics or strength to throw >400' if you have excellent timing. What that timing adds is a lot more force being transferred to the disc. If you hit it right, way more force gets transferred and the disc goes a lot farther. It's not about strength, it's about trasnferring force to the disc.

In short, if you aren't throwing fairway drivers >400' and meet those specs I listed it's because of technique and working out or trying to maximize arm speed won't get you there.

 

[Lithicon]

While his attempts to belittle me are flattering. I don't care what his opinions are, lol.

Anyway, I said one thing that this person should use the search function to find other topics already written. Mainly because I didn't feel like typing huge paragraphs explaining the stuff. Because It's out there already typed up. Then I gave my advice. The first post gave the best info, and is much easier to understand. I'll try to find some topics and post them to give you more info later or something.

 

[Lithicon]

*Two post, because this is so long.*
I'm going to attempt to make sense of this as Garu did, and make it useful to some reader, and not just focus on pointing out where you're wrong. There is probably things I missed, if so I'll post again if needed. Just so you know a lot of this is more advanced than this guy really needed to know.

Next...make sure you have the disc about chest to shoulder high when you pull back and when you release. Many new players pull from their waist, and release by their shoulders.....guess where the disc is going....str8 UP!

I agree with part of this, and it's underlined. (That's about keeping the disc on the plane you start on.) Pulling at your shoulders alone causes nose up problems. You should pull at your nipples, or lower. While it seems backwards about going up and down, it's not. Straight line is just around the nipple area, it varies from person to person. But, Pulling lower increases nose down, and starting out it's hard to get nose down. As long as you keep the disc on the same plan you start on, you'll be fine. Just don't go below your abs.

Next....make sure you are cocking your wrist down....many players do not realize that if the nose of the disc is exposed, you will kill the distance and percision of your shot.....so if you tend to throw discs high....don't just point down....point your hand down....may feel uncomfortable at first.

This is pretty accurate for starting players. Just add that it should be in a hand shake motion, pointing your wrist down, and be sure to keep this throughout the throw.

Next...you need good transition. For beginners, I recommend throwing why you stand still. Try to just pull from A too B.....If forward is 12 o'clock, you want to reach from 7 to 11 o'clock in your pull. Try NOT to think snap......just QUICKLY pull the disc from point A to point B (IMPORTANT-pull as str8 a line as you can).....remember....wrist down so the nose of the disc is down....Two fingers on the disc is usually adequate to pull this off. Grip and snap are a good fundamentals to have for controlling your disc...but being able to produce speed is much more important when you are just learning. When you pull through....think of a gradually increasing the speed in your hand and body. (I recommend a Buzz to just get started....but try a Pro, Star, or Champion Beast) The Beast is fast, and has a good balance of high and low stability, making it a good disc to yank on with little need for snap.

This, well I'd almost go to the point of saying, it's all wrong, as the majority of it is just wrong. But, meh. A few parts are right, but highly over shadowed by what's wrong, lol. The easiest and best way to go about explaining this is you should find and perform the right pec drill till your arm feels as though it's about to fall off. Read, and watch the video's till you have a good understanding of the right pec drill, then do it till it feels like our arm is about to fall off. Then rest for a bit. Now, this is something I wrote just a few days ago to explain the pull through, and how end up in the position, and why the Right pec drill is so VERY important.

Basically when you go into your X step, you reach back. This puts your shoulders facing roughly 180* from the target. It all starts coming out of the X step; the final step starts your rotation out; (Plant foot). As you start to rotate, through body positions, as you're not actually moving your arm yet, the disc is somewhere around your left shoulder. Now, once everything rotates around and your chest is roughly 90* from the target you have a slight pause in your chest, and at this point you "close" your wrist pulling the disc toward your forearm. This puts the disc directly at the center of your chest, (DON'T PULL YET!)
Now during this pause after you close your wrist, you finish rotating your right shoulder. IF you closed your wrist, the disc has no choice but to be "tucked" into the right pec; your right elbow should be pointing at the target. Achieved my rotating your shoulders to line up with your chest. ALL this was achieved by nothing but body positioning, and you should have exerted no force with your arm at all.

Since all this is happening in a split second, it's easy to take body positioning out of the equation and just pull it through with your arm, as that's what feels natural, but that's why you lose power.

This is where the "right pec drill" comes in, as everything from this point after doing the drill should feel 100% natural if you've done the drill long enough. As this tucked feel; with ALL the acceleration from your forearm comes AT THIS POINT OUT. As if you're doing the right pec drill, so that the forearm slings out. The wrist opens to neutral; (Straight with your forearm) due to inertia, then you should physically assist the wrist opening to the "full open" position; (past straight with your forearm) and the disc will then be ejected due to the incredible force you just generated. There is more as to how and why the disc actually leaves your hand, but I won't discuss that right now. But, the split second the disc leaves your hand, you go into the follow through; the arm goes right, and the chest is then pulled to face the target.

So, to recap, everything leading up to getting the disc tucked into your right pec is ALL body positioning and you don't really use any muscles from your arm to "pull" the disc into the pec. THEN, the acceleration gained by your forearm, coupled with the inertia of your body rotating, generates a "whip" like effect, and propels the disc forward.

 

[Lithicon]

"I like to use the girl analogy of reaching back on the bar to grab a drink and someone grabs your buttox....you are mad as you slowly wind up knowing that when you pull your backhand to the respected face, the last second will be the focal point of the b*tch slap...in other words...they will think twice about touchin your behind....hope that makes sense."

This actually done a much better job of explaining what he meant up there, but isn't really relative for most. As Garu said, you're slapping "through" the target though, not just trying to hit the target.

Next...This is hard to explain, but you need to understand an "X" step. I use a four-step "X" Step....some people use three....some use five.....To me, three is too little, five is too much. Check out a video online about appropriate steps through the shot.

Again, not all wrong, but as Garu said already Three is all you "need". Learn to build from the hit back. This is because one you learn to hit, almost your entire throw, timing, run up, and everything must change to BETTER facilitate actually hitting it.

Next....This is a good strategy to explain better extension....whereever you are firing away, aim your feet forward, the disc with appropriate grip in your hand, and hold the disc in the position of where you want to release. Next....start your "X"step.....but leave the disc in the same spot.....until you stop your foot, open your hips....THEN....dragging your shoulder is when you should start moving the disc that should still be stationary or where you first aimed at the target.....
If you find yourself moving your disc before this point....your steps are too big.....smaller and slower steps are always better until you are comfortable.

No idea where this was going, as it's a jumble of wrong info and info that doesn't make sense, I think you're trying to explain about the reach back, and pull through, and a small info of timing into one. But, you done a horrible job of it and the article I posted above is much better. The only good part that was mentioned above is this.

smaller and slower steps are always better until you are comfortable.

Small steps are all that's ever really needed.

Last bit of advice....try to make sure your pivot leg....which BETTER be your right leg is str8 up and down(lateral like a ballerina) to your head and shoulders.....you do not want to be pulling through when your pelvis is between your two feet....generally this means you have too big of a last step....or your transition of inertia from your foot to pelvis to should, to elbow, to hand is off.

This is hard to comprehend. Not sure exactly what you mean. It sounds like the first part you're saying you shouldn't bend at the waist as you follow through, which is correct if that's what you meant. But, you don't want your leg "straight" Your knee has to be bent some, or you'll jam your hip and that keeps you from following through correctly, and means you won't come to the hit nearly as hard as you could have. By jamming the hip, I mean you're stopping your fluid rotation. Also, with your knee bent, this allows you to get weight forward, which is very key. Without bending your waist. The second part sounds like you're saying you don't want to start your pull too early, which is right, but gets lost in your jumble of non-existent finished sentences. So after reading my article, you'll know why you end up into the right pec drill. Which is WHERE ALL YOUR POWER comes from, added to the inertia of your body rotating. Because, accelerating too early means you start to decelerate into the hit, which means you lost power.

Lastly....lol.....make sure your thumb nail is matching the initial position it started in.....and that you are allowing your hand to stop at that point.....the end result should be you pivoting on your right foot...while the disc snaps out of your hand....while your hand should literally hit you somewhere on your back or butt......

Going to go with Garu here and say I think you mean not to roll your wrist which is correct. But, you don't' allow your hand to stop at the end of the throw. I'll elaborate on this as I didn't do it in my article I posted above.
The reason the disc comes out of your hand, and taking the Right pec drill as an example. When you begin, it's all forearm motion.This is your accelertationg point, forcing your forearm to come nearly fully extended, now due to inertia, your wrist will half open to the neutral posistion (straight with your forearm, (if you had closed it correctly at the start of the drill, in the fully closed position.) The biggest key here is to ASSIST, meaning as you accelerated your forearm, once you wrist starts to open due to inertia, you assist it and pull it to the full open posistion.(past straight with your forearm. THAT is actively opening the wrist. During the wrist opening stage is where you tighten your pinch grip. The grip should be loose all the way up to this point. Not loose so the disc flops, but loose so your arm and upper body stays loose. Now whether you allow it to half open, or actively open isn't the reason it will come out of your hand, but as these body parts come to the end of this unleashing. Because they're physically attached, they have no choice but to change direction. In this split second where you forearm begins to change direction is where the disc is ejected from your hand. As I said, you wanted to have your grip tighter, so that there is more of your potential energy being transferred to the disc. Then you as the arm goes around, you body begins to follow it, ending with you pointing toward your target.
But, you hand doesn't have to hit you, and probably never will if you rotate your body through on your follow through as you're suppose to as I said just above.

Trust the disc will release....like a baby without a seat belt on....you are simply the car that hit the brick wall...keep in mind...the throw should be crisp and beautiful, but your body motion should look rather "violent but well timed"....like a pitcher in the major league......all the speed is in the last second....and the inertia from the throw makes the pitcher nearly fall over....

This is basically saying don't just let the disc go, hold on to it, and it will come out, as the inertia/forces behind it will over power your grip and rip it from your hand; which is correct, but hard to follow if you don't know what he's talking about in the first place.

Think SPEED and FINESSE rather than MUSCLE and SNAP....GL...:hfive:

Finesse, yes. Speed will come with proper body position. Snap will come from the right pec drill and learning to actively open the wrist.

Only one of these I say no to is muscle, and that's only because you're thinking of the wrong muscles. Hand muscle is the only muscle you need to throw far. The more you can hold onto the disc, the better the energy transfer from your throw to the disc will be.

Oh yeah...play with and watch good players who like to give advice...YouTube is nice, but nothing beats execution in the flesh!

Agree.

 

[Noill]

Oh my! This has become a typing contest... if so then I lose and I'm out...of this thread anyway

blah bla bl b...

 

[BrotherDave]

Oh my! This has become a typing contest... if so then I lose and I'm out...of this thread anyway

blah bla bl b...

At least they're putting it all in one post instead being post whores like me.

I love this thread derail but you guys should really have your technique coaching pi$$ing match in a Technique and Strategy thread. :\

 

[Scoot_er]

Here is how you get good;

Be naturally athletic, throw a Cheetah and Aviar, and let the rest come...............BITCHES

 

[KJDog19]

throw a Cheetah and Aviar, and let the rest come...............BITCHES

Owned!

 

[BrotherDave]

Here is how you get good;

Be naturally athletic, throw a Cheetah and Aviar, and let the rest come...............BITCHES

You guys and your DGR humor. Go throw your Devilhawks elsewhere.

 

[Scoot_er]

You guys and your DGR humor. Go throw your Devilhawks elsewhere.

The only place I can throw it is in the basket!

 

[BrotherDave]

The only place I can throw it is in the basket!

Have you tried Conejo Valley?

 

[NateDiscFlip]

Snap is good...but it's just another part of the game.

As quoted earlier:.....This is basically saying don't just let the disc go, hold on to it, and it will come out, as the inertia/forces behind it will over power your grip and rip it from your hand; which is correct, but hard to follow if you don't know what he's talking about in the first place.



As a beginner, I use to think snap held a disc in flight...and the aerodynamics made the disc fly far...generally true....but some would be amazed of the different types of throws that are possible by using quick body motion...basically I am implying LATE high speed turns can be manipulated on even very fast discs. Here's when you would use this shot.

For those of you who have played Flip City, I am one of just two players who hit the ace on (old basket position)#14. My boy hit it on a huge anhyzer...I went str8 at the basket.

For those of you who have played the hole, great...easier to explain...if not bare with me...the story may be worth it.

You start elevated about 10-15 feet above the basket(330) str8 down a lane with a tight grouping of trees you must split to get to the basket. The KEY...You have to turn the disc over very late in the shot...Problem is...there is a slopping hill that comes down on the right, and a line of trees run all along the right. You can not flex the disc early or you will hit the hill to the right. The shot is made by hitting a gap to the right which I would say is at about 270 of the 330 hole....there is truly only about a split second gap to shoot through.....It is NOT a str8 gap to hit...so you MUST flex the disc late to punch it through. Once through...the disc must fight back quick cause the basket is set str8 back(+50feet)...and more to the left of the gap...

How is this possible?....try releasing your disc nearly grip free(I refer to these as "PULL"-SHOTS)....and use as much speed(or quick body motion) as possible. Faster discs but more understable plastics are great to use...as I was using a Star Destroyer.

I pulled through(NO SNAP)...the disc went very str8....and the momentum of the pull eventually catch up with the disc, making the disc flex, but very very late in the throw(WHICH YOU ARE NOT TRYING TO BLOW UP).

The reason why I had the chance to ace after the flex was that the destroyer's stability caught up with the flex....pulling the disc back on a str8 line turning to the left and boooooooom....

Skill occurred to hit the gap.

Luck occurred when it hit the basket.

History occurred when it stayed in.

Old men that roam Flip City still ask how I did it....and now you know there is more than one way to make a shot....

basket is moved now...It's tougher....but I see the line...and I have multiple perspectives of how my disc is going to go from point A....to point B:hfive:

Hopefully this advice is taken advantage of....as it may open up some line or shot perspectives on holes you are still wondering how you could ever ace.

 

[Jody Mitchell]

Book was great, looking forward to the movie.

opcorn:

 

[Scoot_er]

As quoted earlier:.....This is basically saying don't just let the disc go, hold on to it, and it will come out, as the inertia/forces behind it will over power your grip and rip it from your hand; which is correct, but hard to follow if you don't know what he's talking about in the first place.



As a beginner, I use to think snap held a disc in flight...and the aerodynamics made the disc fly far...generally true....but some would be amazed of the different types of throws that are possible by using quick body motion...basically I am implying LATE high speed turns can be manipulated on even very fast discs. Here's when you would use this shot.

For those of you who have played Flip City, I am one of just two players who hit the ace on (old basket position)#14. My boy hit it on a huge anhyzer...I went str8 at the basket.

For those of you who have played the hole, great...easier to explain...if not bare with me...the story may be worth it.

You start elevated about 10-15 feet above the basket(330) str8 down a lane with a tight grouping of trees you must split to get to the basket. The KEY...You have to turn the disc over very late in the shot...Problem is...there is a slopping hill that comes down on the right, and a line of trees run all along the right. You can not flex the disc early or you will hit the hill to the right. The shot is made by hitting a gap to the right which I would say is at about 270 of the 330 hole....there is truly only about a split second gap to shoot through.....It is NOT a str8 gap to hit...so you MUST flex the disc late to punch it through. Once through...the disc must fight back quick cause the basket is set str8 back(+50feet)...and more to the left of the gap...

How is this possible?....try releasing your disc nearly grip free(I refer to these as "PULL"-SHOTS)....and use as much speed(or quick body motion) as possible. Faster discs but more understable plastics are great to use...as I was using a Star Destroyer.

I pulled through(NO SNAP)...the disc went very str8....and the momentum of the pull eventually catch up with the disc, making the disc flex, but very very late in the throw(WHICH YOU ARE NOT TRYING TO BLOW UP).

The reason why I had the chance to ace after the flex was that the destroyer's stability caught up with the flex....pulling the disc back on a str8 line turning to the left and boooooooom....

Skill occurred to hit the gap.

Luck occurred when it hit the basket.

History occurred when it stayed in.

Old men that roam Flip City still ask how I did it....and now you know there is more than one way to make a shot....

basket is moved now...It's tougher....but I see the line...and I have multiple perspectives of how my disc is going to go from point A....to point B:hfive:

Hopefully this advice is taken advantage of....as it may open up some line or shot perspectives on holes you are still wondering how you could ever ace.

330ft and you are going with a Destroyer anhyzer? OAT anyone?

How about a Meteor hyzer-flip or even some fairway driver action like a Cyclone at 80%?

 

[NateDiscFlip]

Just making a point...for one...hopefully many

Book was great, looking forward to the movie.

opcorn:

Just helping my boy Lethicon see there is more than one way to skin a cat...this skinning put me in the history books....but yesss...you will get first class treatment at the premiere.

 

[Scoot_er]

Just helping my boy Lethicon see there is more than one way to skin a cat...this skinning put me in the history books....but yesss...you will get first class treatment at the premiere.

This guy is good!

 

[NateDiscFlip]

What is OAT?

If it was that easy...wouldn't there of been more than one str8 ace on a highly visited course over the last 25 years?

Takes notes...you may just learn something.

 

[NateDiscFlip]

Hence...the bling bling$$$$

This guy is good!

The old men of Flip City throw rose pedals at my feet...

 

[NateDiscFlip]

Envy

Just to give you an idea of #14's difficulty.....my boy hit the ace on 5A(only one and definitely the second hardest ace at flip)....he let's me know everytime that I am still one up on him...recognize...and don't walk on my flower petals...