[Recommend] Next step up from a Leopard?

[TripleB]

Went out to the baseball field today with several Leopards: 153g DX (my 10 year olds), 167g DX (beaten a good bit), 168g DX (looks almost new).

All of them, when I gave the throw all I had, turned left on me. It seems like my power has really picked up since I went to the 'X' step...as a tennis player I was told to never let my feet cross so the 'X' step was new to me...hesitant to try it until I had a few months of throwing under my belt. If I powered down to keep the Leos straight then they went no further than my Comet that went perfectly straight at full power.

So glad to see improvements on distance. Makes me look forward to the day when I'm not throwing such understable disc to get a straight flight pattern. Maybe my slightly beat in DX TeeBird 163g is ready to be thrown straight or a lighter one (sub 160g) in a better plastic...that thing glides forever. Can't wait to get out there with the 153g Star Sidewinder this weekend....thanks to brandocommando9.

Thanks for all the input!

TripleB

 

[TripleB]

All of them, when I gave the throw all I had, turned left on me.
TripleB

I meant RIGHT!!!

TripleB

 

[slowplastic]

Yeah if the DX Leo's are all turning right, then you may like your Pro Leo more now...if not scuff it up on some smooth cement and try it out again. Also when you are getting some drift right out of your DX Teebird, you'll know you're ready to look into more premium plastic fairways. Not necessarily a premium Teebird unless you want some assured stability at the cost of a little distance, but once your DX bird is drifting a bit you'll be able to get great flights out of premium Leo's or FD's or the like.

Being able to throw your Comet far and straight means you're definitely on the right track. That combined with Leo's holding a right turn is very good news.

 

[Broken Shoulder]

Yeah if the DX Leo's are all turning right, then you may like your Pro Leo more now...if not scuff it up on some smooth cement and try it out again. Also when you are getting some drift right out of your DX Teebird, you'll know you're ready to look into more premium plastic fairways. Not necessarily a premium Teebird unless you want some assured stability at the cost of a little distance, but once your DX bird is drifting a bit you'll be able to get great flights out of premium Leo's or FD's or the like.

Being able to throw your Comet far and straight means you're definitely on the right track. That combined with Leo's holding a right turn is very good news.

Well said.
Grasshopper may soon need to learn a hyzerflip, and continue utilizing existing discs.

 

[Streets]

TripleB

If you got your fairways to look something like this:

Champ Teebird - winds OS stuff, learn FH
Pro Leopard - straight, go to fairway
Dx Leopard - US, hyzerflips and such

You would be in great shape.

 

[TripleB]

Yeah if the DX Leo's are all turning right, then you may like your Pro Leo more now...if not scuff it up on some smooth cement and try it out again. Also when you are getting some drift right out of your DX Teebird, you'll know you're ready to look into more premium plastic fairways. Not necessarily a premium Teebird unless you want some assured stability at the cost of a little distance, but once your DX bird is drifting a bit you'll be able to get great flights out of premium Leo's or FD's or the like.

Being able to throw your Comet far and straight means you're definitely on the right track. That combined with Leo's holding a right turn is very good news.

Put my Pro Leo in my bag as soon as I came home hoping that would be the case!

Threw my Teebird today, and maybe I was just having an on day, but it went amazingly straight and oh so far! I'm glad you mentioned the fact that I may not want to look at a premium Teebird. I got my son a Roc Glow for Christmas and it looks awesome - I was thinking about getting me a Teebird Glow (ID says the Glow is a lot more durable and more grippy)...would this be considered a premium plastic because it's labeled as a DX Glow disc at ID?

I was shocked by how far the Comet went with it being a 4/4 disc. It went even further than my 5/5 Manta. Right now I think the Comet is definitely the disc I have the most confidence in (other than maybe my Mirage that I use for all approaches).

Thank you for the input!

Well said.
Grasshopper may soon need to learn a hyzerflip, and continue utilizing existing discs.

Definitely will look into that! My buddy made a comment the other day that my anny looks better than guys he's been playing with for 3 years. A DG book I read said hyzers were easier than annys but not for me...I think because somewhere along the way I developed a pretty killer backhand overhead in tennis and throwing an anny reminds me of that motion.

Thanks for the input!

TripleB

If you got your fairways to look something like this:

Champ Teebird - winds OS stuff, learn FH
Pro Leopard - straight, go to fairway
Dx Leopard - US, hyzerflips and such

You would be in great shape.

I appreciate the help and steering me in the right direction! And the fact that they are models of disc I'm already comfortable with.

The 'learn FH' part is going to be something I struggle with. I can't throw one right handed and my left handed FH usually flies the same path as my RHBH.

Again, thanks for all the help!

TripleB

 

[slowplastic]

Comets go super far for a midrange...they need height to glide it out but if you give them height and clean power they will stay in the air forever. If you torque on it or try to overpower it improperly they will not tolerate it...which is why it is so often recommended here. If you throw it wrong it tells you, but if you throw it right it will go farther than any other midrange, 5 speeds included, because it will just keep gliding until it sits down slowly.

I haven't thrown a Glow DX bird for a while, I would still consider it baseline plastic although I think they can often be a little firmer than normal DX. If you want to make a first trip into premium Teebirds I would look at Gstar. Teebirds are incredible discs in all plastics, but the thing is that DX birds are the longest fliers of all. It's just that they will show some turn, if I throw a DX bird it will probably fly like you throwing a Leo. So people will step up to premium plastic to gain more straight to fade stability, and wind resistance, even knowing that it will cost them some distance. Gstar Teebird is the most mild flying of the premiums, it should be a true 7/5/0/2. I would not recommend champ for you yet, unless you find a very used one that is broken in...it should look completely trashed and will fly great. Champ Teebirds can be extremely stable-overstable...they won't fade out of my hand, but I can throw them full power into most wind and know they won't care. It's a great disc but it costs me 30' over something like a Gstar for sure, maybe more, and probably 30-50' compared to a DX. At this stage a champ Teebird would likely be utility overstable for you, and not very fun to throw.

Really though, see how the Pro Leo and DX Teebird fly for you after a few more sessions. Hopefully you don't lose your new found form...if that happens just go back to the mindset of what you were focusing on rather than having expectations, getting frustrated, throwing "harder", and doing worse. That's a common and bad cycle. If those discs are turning and flying dead straight then consider something like a Gstar Teebird. The beauty of the Teebird is that it is a dead straight flyer, the 2 of fade on it should be extremely subtle. So if you are getting it to go dead straight you are doing things right, and if it is drifting right on you then you are starting to overpower your light DX bird in a good way. If your DX bird has had some scuffs then the Pro Leo may even be more overstable than it for now...only way to know is to throw them a bunch and see how they work out.

 

[Broken Shoulder]

^ Slowplastic with another on point post.

The speed rating on the disc is not a limitation. As SP said, a Comet can be extremely long for a mid when you get the height and angle right. It's just that the 4 or whatever speed rating means it's going to take it longer to get there.

And he's right on DX and Gstar Teebirds. Stay in that lane for awhile. When you start seeing more pronounced turn out of your Leopards and Teebirds on flat releases, you can start manipulating the angle a bit and hyzerflipping for straight shots or straight to late turn throws.

 

[TripleB]

Comets go super far for a midrange...they need height to glide it out but if you give them height and clean power they will stay in the air forever.

a Comet can be extremely long for a mid when you get the height and angle right. It's just that the 4 or whatever speed rating means it's going to take it longer to get there.

Hate to go off on a Comet tangent in this post but love this disc. I currently use a 166g X-Line Stratus as my RHBH turnover shot (I have no FH). If I keep throwing my 169g X-Line Comet, will it eventually beat in so that I can use the Comet X in place of my Stratus for that shot? Also have a Z-Line Comet but much prefer the X-Line...stability wise any idea how the ESP flies compared to these two?

Thanks!

TripleB

 

[Broken Shoulder]

Sure, you can likely beat the hell out of your X Comet to get to the understable role. No idea how long that will take, so just let it happen organically. Or, throw a second shot into the trees with your Comet every hole.

I don't have much experience with ESP Comets, but in general, the good Comets have a mild dome. When they're flat they're less stable/neutral...theyre not Comet-y.

What don't you like about the Z?

 

[TripleB]

What don't you like about the Z?

To me it's much better looking than the X but I just can't grip it near as well as the X...it has a tendency to come out of my hand early.

I guess I'll stick with the Stratus for that turnover mid. Or look at the Meteor or Proof.

Thanks!

TripleB

 

[Streets]

Fresh Z plastic can be quite slick, I can see that from a Z Comet. But it does develop grip with seasoning.

ESP is a good route to go. They are good flying Comets. Like X that won't break in as fast.

Did you ever get to try out a Wizard?

 

[Broken Shoulder]

To me it's much better looking than the X but I just can't grip it near as well as the X...it has a tendency to come out of my hand early.

I guess I'll stick with the Stratus for that turnover mid.

Thanks!

TripleB

That's fair. I'm not a big fan of Champ/Z plastic either.
Base, or lower "premium" plastics, are more durable than most people give them credit for, especially in slower speed discs. It can take a long time to wear a stable mid into a reliable turnover mid. There's no harm at all in carrying both while the process occurs on its own. You could also look for used Comets if you're in a hurry...a wanted thread in the MP here specifying understable ones may yield results. (I say may for two reasons: 1. Who knows what anyone has and is willing to part with. 2. Torque Monkeys think all Comets are understable because they don't know how to throw them, so you could just get regular stable Comets.)

 

[slowplastic]

X Comets take a while to beat in judging by the one I'm using currently. I've had it in the bag for a year, it had a firm 0 for turn initially and now it will sometimes drift right on me a touch if I throw it super hard and flat. It isn't a turnover disc yet, which really surprises me. It can be used for anhyzers that hold of course, but if thrown flat or with a touch of hyzer it's still dead straight. So that X plastic may beat in pretty slow for you too.

Z feels bad when fresh to me too for the most part. I'd force yourself to throw it a bit to get it scuffed up and it will improve in grip. Throw it next to your X and see if it's actually more stable, Comets depend a lot on shape, so Z is not necessarily more stable than X at all, it depends on the discs. A Z midrange is one of those cases where if you beat it in or scuff it up for a few weeks, you'll then have a disc that holds stability for a long time I think. It may feel bad initially but if you get past that point it will stay consistent. I do like the feel of ESP Comets too. You're almost better off finding a less stable Comet than trying to beat in your X Comet to flippy judging by how well mine has held up...having a dead straight mid that encroaches on fairways is not something you want to accelerate the wear pattern past, since a straight shot is so valuable and it can really be manipulated.

 

[discerdoo]

I have a stack of Comets in most plastic types. Granted, I haven't tried numerous discs of the same plastics but my personal stability rankings from least to most are:

X
ESP
Big Z
Z
Ti

Bagging a 176g Big Z currently.

 

[Van1]

Doubling down on my beat to crap Sidewinder suggestion.

 

[TripleB]

Doubling down on my beat to crap Sidewinder suggestion.

Got a beat in Star 153g Sidewinder arriving tomorrow...given to me by a board member!!!

My plan is to have my bag set with: this Sidewinder, Teebird, Leopard, Comet, Stratus, Roc, Mirage, Pure, and putter.

TripleB

 

[natedg1976]

Get yourself a 155 gram MVP Relay And the same weight Axiom Crave. You're welcome. I was a leopard thrower. The relay is a leopard but longer for me even though it is the same speed. The crave is a bit more stable and one speed faster. They are both excellent discs for noodle arms and unlike other companies they do not lose stability in lightweights.

 

[dysmike]

How bout, we not have the poor guy buy overlapping discs for brand fanboy reasons?

BTW, weight and stability.. not tightly coupled. This has been covered a bunch.

 

[brandocommando9]

Doubling down on my beat to crap Sidewinder suggestion.

He has one on the way I really hope it works well for him!