[Mids] One guys quest for the right stable/overstable mid and his findings.

[thatdirtykid]

No this was back in 2006 or so. I lost two in a short time span, and only had one (unthrown) one left and couldn't find them anymore. I traded it to a friend who threw them for 4 X-Wasps, and thats when I started cycling wasps.

 

[jrawk]

Everybody likes different stages of wear on their discs. Some guys like to create a bag around the flight of brand new off-the-shelf discs. Some prefer the opposite. So, obviously, you may find that as the discs you've reviewed break it, your initial assessment may change. For instance, it takes about 6 months of steady use to get a Z Hornet to be seasoned perfectly... but once it's there, it doesn't change... and it's magical. I've been throwing the same one for 4 years now? and pairing it with a fresh one for the extra fade.

 

[Pbmercil]

The roc3 didn't penetrate into the wind as well as some of the others. It was a stable disc, but once turned into the wind it got pushed around a bit. When there was a headwind, DX San Marino Rocs and KC Pros were just as long as the roc3 The others were more predictable. Like I said, the Roc3 didn't get a very fair chance because the small sample size. A flat top, although less stable probably would have penetrated the wind better.

I can see that. It takes a very discerning eye to pick out an excellent OS/headwind Roc3. Frankly its much easier to just grab a verdict in your plastic of choice, and the verdict is a phenomenal all around midrange. The only reason I bag a choice champ roc3 over a nice biofuzion verdict that's sitting in a box right now for consistency and to keep the mold count low. If you don't care about mold counts or having a drastically different feel in the hand verdict is the way to go for sure.

I'm also going to contradict you on the flat top Roc3 comment. I don't care for the flatter roc3s at all. Just about any DX or KC pro rancho will do everything a flat champ roc3 can do and more. I only like my Roc3's domey and beefy.

 

[thatdirtykid]

I understand the merits of broken in discs, most of these were used. The hornet just wasn't quite right. With my bag having been almost all discraft mids for a very long time, I expected the hornet to be it. I am(was) looking for a stable to overstable workhorse. I have had some very seasoned Z discs in the past, and love them but they almost become irreplaceable.

Does your hornet hold gentle right turning shots well before a solid hornet fade? Also around here with the lack of trees 6 months is about how long I take to break in Base/mid grade plastic. It takes me about 1.5-2 years before a Z buzzz works into my turning buzzz enough to throw a new one in.

 

[jrawk]

I am(was) looking for a stable to overstable workhorse. I have had some very seasoned Z discs in the past, and love them but they almost become irreplaceable.

that is true.

Does your hornet hold gentle right turning shots well before a solid hornet fade?

Yes to gentle right turning shots pulling out into fade at the end. But if you get to much anny on it, it won't come out completely, but instead finish flat and glide straight after the turn.. that's why I also carry a fresh one for those.

Almost all overstable midranges act the same way when broken in.

 

[thatdirtykid]

I can see that. It takes a very discerning eye to pick out an excellent OS/headwind Roc3. Frankly its much easier to just grab a verdict in your plastic of choice, and the verdict is a phenomenal all around midrange. The only reason I bag a choice champ roc3 over a nice biofuzion verdict that's sitting in a box right now for consistency and to keep the mold count low. If you don't care about mold counts or having a drastically different feel in the hand verdict is the way to go for sure.

I'm also going to contradict you on the flat top Roc3 comment. I don't care for the flatter roc3s at all. Just about any DX or KC pro rancho will do everything a flat champ roc3 can do and more. I only like my Roc3's domey and beefy.

Nice, I am (or looking at my sig, used to be) a mold minimalist. The heart of my bag is still minimal (Mercy, Buzzz, FD, PD all carry multiples), but its been built on to a bit. I am also thinking once I have a verdict broken in some, I may be looking to consolidate the buzzz/comet into one disc.

I was on the lookout for a flat roc3 last year (when I was toying with rocs again) thinking it could perform some buzzz duties. I had good luck with a flat top DX, but it wasn't as long but few mids are as long as the buzzz. That said the buzzz gets less use than ever with a C-FD in my bag.

I do think discs with a bead, once the wind gets under them, can get pushed around a little more due to the deeper profile. I love beaded discs, but have slowly worked away from them unintentionally (the mercy is the first non beaded putter I have committed to).

 

[thatdirtykid]

.

Almost all overstable midranges act the same way when broken in.

That statement just makes me miss old X wasps. The initial break in was faster than a KC roc, but the sweet-spot stuck longer.

Its crazy to think we all could probably play with the same 7 molds and things wouldnt be that different. If anything us plastic whores would be better because we wouldn't change things up as much.

 

[DG_Before_Breakfast]

Interesting work.

I basically never figured this out, and instead use a Zone for short forehand flicks, and a Volt when I need more power. Also have used a Trident, but I like my stable Dye-Max Volt better these days. I use a Glo Buzzz for windy situations, or sometimes the more stable Volt I have. I tried a Buzzz OS, Aftershock and Shockwave.

 

[Monkeypaws]

I compared a Verdict to a Hornet of similar weight head to head on a very windy day and the Hornet won hands down.

Nice OP though - like to see thorough analysis like this.

 

[thatdirtykid]

The hornet can definately handle more wind, but once its that windy I am probably better off with a xxx or pd.

The aftershock is one I have thrown a bit of. Its just not stable enough. Less Hss than a buzzz but a little more fade. Not good in the wind.

 

[Oklahyzer]

Nice write up and mirrors a lot of what I've found. I was really happy with the Pain more than most of the others...opto a little moreso than gold. Very disappointed in the two Vectors I had because they just didn't have the hss and I found that they held up poorly in stronger winds and weren't hard to anny to the ground without flexing out even in moderate winds. I think I was most disappointed with the Hornet because it also didn't have the hss I'd hoped for but it always had the big fade. I should note that my aim for this slot with a slightly overstable mid was mainly some true zero-turn hss without a big dumping fade...something that would handle strong (15mph plus) head and cross winds reliably without having to step up to a fairway.

I found all of that in the Verdict and I haven't been happier with a disc in a very long time. It's like a longer Gator with glide and less effort to get it out there. For the shots that I like the Verdict best for, a good beat in dx Viper is also worth consideration, and just for kicks you might consider trying out a Tensor sometime....it's also a pretty nice disc as long as you have a good snappy release. It's hard to find a mid that has good true hss under power or in big wind, but these three discs really shine. I may pick up a Shark 3 just to compare myself.

 

[Oklahyzer]

I'm not a big Roc fan, but I have to say that of them all, I really liked the star Sanny quite a bit. Seems to me most what the Vector is like. My Vector experience was only first and second runs, though, if that matters.

 

[tomte]

Funny. I was looking to fill this spot for a long time. And I couldn't get hold of a 175+ weight lucid verdict for a long time. In the meantime I tried the Pain (great disc, but it just doesn't do well in wind, very controllable), the Bard (it doesn't feel right in my hand), the Harp (too short for using it as a mid), the Sinus (same as the Harp). I did try a Roc, Buzz, Mace, Truth... but they cannot fill that ovstable/stable slot.

I just hope they make the Verdict in a base plastic soon.

 

[DeLa-Loc654]

I'm using the Bard for this slot. I tried the Mace, Roc, Vector, Truth (before I knew the flight ratings are bogus), Tensor. The Truth was both too fast and too understable so I didn't try a verdict. The bard is easily the most comfortable in the hand for me and the 177g VIP I have is plenty stable (it fades almost immediately out of the hand). I'm beating up a 172g TP one for straighter shots and its already working. The main drawback is that there's no baseline available (like the Verdict, but you could use a truth which basically the same, for cycling), so I have to complement it with a tangent. But I'm digging the bard.

 

[thatdirtykid]

Got a bard today. I have not thrown it, but I think it will be slower than I want. Even if it can get out there.
Played a round with just a Bio Verdict and one of my Mercys. The verdict was great, it even flew similar lines as a new buzzz when snapped hard and flat and easily flew as far as a buzzz. The same spots I would throw a buzzz with a touch of hyzer. I would not be surprised if I end up throwing just Verdict and Comet eventually (considering the buzzz and comet overlap a bit already). I think missed having a workhorse stable mid more than I realized.

 

[WhiteyBear]

G* Roc3, completely different animal than the champ, great fh mid and hyzer disc. You need to give that one a shot too.

 

[thatdirtykid]

I tossed a friends a few times, from the throws I gave it, I am not sure it had the HSS I like
AND
I cannot stand floppy plastic. I have two G PDs that are stiff for G and even they don't get bagged often.

 

[AzteC]

Verdict will be my only mid soon. I was using a seasoned buzzz for straight to understable shots and a roc3 for slightly stable shots and a bard for OS. I found my verdict to kick the bard out immediately pretty much. I'm justing waiting for my most beat verdict to take the place of what my buzzz is doing. I hope so quickly because my Z buzzz seems like its getting more understable by the day.

 

[Titanic_Sinks]

Y'know...the discmania gremlin (gm) would have been a legitimate option for your testing.

 

[Mr. Butlertron]

Cool review, maybe you'll be able to add the Warrior eventually.