Red-green color blind accessibility.

[Cgkdisc]

One issue with white flags marking a high grass OB boundary for tournaments is they can simply look like scraps of paper litter from a distance. I've considered alternating white and orange every other flag for these types of lines but have defaulted to white so far.

 

[krupicka]

I agree. So like I said, standardize the signals. Instead of crossing flags to denote "I don't know for sure", have them make the arms-out shrug signals. Don't use the same signal for two different situations.

I instruct my spotters at Ledgestone to do the arms-out shrug with both flags to signal when unsure.

 

[DavidSauls]

A lot of things being interchanged here. Painted lines, landscape flags marking OB (etc.), and spotter flags.

Sometimes these need to be seen from a distance---sometimes not.

The painted lines would seem to be the biggest issue, since up close you can see flags of any color, but making a close determination on OB could still be an issue. (I'm not a fan of painted OB lines, because they can be imprecise or disappear with foot traffic, but we do what we can).

Where flags don't have to be seen from a distance---for example, they're defining a visible OB like a creek bank---they could be green or even transparent, and by the time you get that point you can see them.

As for spotter flags, I wonder if a change of shades would help---a dark red and a lime green, for example. That would maintain the familiar red/green stop/go connection, but might provide sufficient contrast for the colorblind.

 

[Cgkdisc]

Thinking about ordering 4x5 flags printed this way for OB marking to take up to Highbridge in August. With shipping, 1000 flags will cost about $85. I paid almost the same per flag at $8.50 for 100 white flags at Menards last week.

 

[Rob Martin]

My dad is terribly colorblind...Sideways mounted traffic lights are a real adventure for him.

My dad was also colorblinded (he passed in 1999). Horizontal traffic lights were a problem for him as well. If we were driving together he would ask me what color it was. I asked him once what does he do when I'm not with him and he says he watches what other traffic does and follows. LOL. Wow. BTW, he was also an electrician. For real. He found ways to make it work, like most people with disabilities, however great or small.

I think the thing to consider is, 'if I'm able to improve my tournament, at a reasonable cost, am I willing to?' The most common paint color available is orange. Sometimes that's the only choice. However, if I'm able to, I buy white paint, because it's easier for all people. I'll even go to a couple of stores looking for it.

Regarding flags, white vs black flags seems fairly logical.

I'm not sure, but I would think yellow and blue would work as well?

 

[SD86]

My dad was also colorblinded (he passed in 1999). Horizontal traffic lights were a problem for him as well. If we were driving together he would ask me what color it was. I asked him once what does he do when I'm not with him and he says he watches what other traffic does and follows. LOL. Wow. BTW, he was also an electrician. For real. He found ways to make it work, like most people with disabilities, however great or small.

Exactly. And those that are colorblind will find ways to cope, be it to have a friend as a caddy or otherwise present, or to ask the other players, or whatever they need to do.

And we ALL should be paying as much attention to the traffic.

 

[Orioles_Lefty]

A year or so ago a local TD who is awesome started using only white paint to mark OB lines and such, because he was made aware that red paint on green grass is invisible to players who have red-green color blindness.

This got me thinking of other things in disc golf which are coded to red and green, and how to improve accessibility for people who cannot (or cannot easily and quickly) distinguish the two. Red and green spotter flags, for example, would likely look the same. Would silk-screen printing some kind of icon onto the flags make them more usable? One idea could be a bold check mark on an in-bounds one, and an X on an out-of-bounds one.

How else could spotter flags be improved in this regard? Are there other icons which would work better and communicate the idea unequivocally and without using text?

What else in the game is coded red and green and could use improvement?

Thank you for this post, Nova P. People debating about how accessible courses need to be or how to retrofit accessibility miss the point that accessibility, beyond merely access, is about autonomy. I appreciate you starting this conversation.

 

[biscoe]

...just in time to source spotter flags for USWDGC... would have gotten red and green otherwise...

 

[F.Luke]

Spotting could be done with only one flag (thus no need for two colors) if how the flag was presented relayed the message. Ex: flag vertically overhead = inbounds; horizontally from the shoulder = unsure, group call; and downward across body = out of bounds. Look at semaphore.

 

[biscoe]

Spotting could be done with only one flag (thus no need for two colors) if how the flag was presented relayed the message. Ex: flag vertically overhead = inbounds; horizontally from the shoulder = unsure, group call; and downward across body = out of bounds. Look at semaphore.

This is the conclusion I keep coming to as well. (now that i actually have thought about it a bit)

 

[Cgkdisc]

Spotting could be done with only one flag (thus no need for two colors) if how the flag was presented relayed the message. Ex: flag vertically overhead = inbounds; horizontally from the shoulder = unsure, group call; and downward across body = out of bounds. Look at semaphore.

Of course, agreed upon hand signals can work the same as one flag, with no flag required.

 

[krupicka]

Spotting could be done with only one flag (thus no need for two colors) if how the flag was presented relayed the message. Ex: flag vertically overhead = inbounds; horizontally from the shoulder = unsure, group call; and downward across body = out of bounds. Look at semaphore.

Which is opposite of sports like volleyball...
https://www.quora.com/What-do-volleyball-line-judges-hand-signals-mean

 

[F.Luke]

Of course, agreed upon hand signals can work the same as one flag, with no flag required.

True. The flags would merely aid in visibility. Perhaps the PDGA could create those agreed upon signals.

Which is opposite of sports like volleyball...
https://www.quora.com/What-do-volleyball-line-judges-hand-signals-mean

I was a FIFA registered soccer official for a few years. Perhaps flag up is out, no flag is in and waving flag is group decision? I was simply brainstorming a simplified method. The regulating bodies of other sports have standardized the signals of their officials. The PDGA should do the same.

 

[JeremyKShort]

I don't know that spotter flags are as big of a deal as OB lines. You absolutely need to be able to see the OB lines. A spotter flag, you can just ask someone what color it is. Although it's probably not that difficult to put a big X on one side.

I like the ideas about finding colors that can be seen easily, versus flags and things with custom printing on the. If you start getting flags custom printed, the pricing and availability get more difficult to deal with as a TD.

 

[Steve West]

Spotting could be done with only one flag (thus no need for two colors) if how the flag was presented relayed the message. Ex: flag vertically overhead = inbounds; horizontally from the shoulder = unsure, group call; and downward across body = out of bounds. Look at semaphore.

I'm thinking of all those situations where the spotter can barely make the flag visible by waiving and jumping: from inside a bush, or down in the reeds by the water.

 

[Cgkdisc]

How about signal lights? One, if on land, Two, in the sea...

 

[F.Luke]

I'm thinking of all those situations where the spotter can barely make the flag visible by waiving and jumping: from inside a bush, or down in the reeds by the water.

We'd need to equip the officials with Scuba or at least a snorkel if they were expected to make their signal from the disc's location out of bounds. I guess red/green color blindness or standardized signals are of no consequence 'cause of "bushes."

 

[tampora]

My least favorite is being explained exactly where the orange OB flag line extends and then throwing (what I think is) the perfect shot, only to be told I was OB by 10 feet.

 

[BrotherDave]

Pelvic thrusting = In bounds.

Cabbage patch = out of bounds.

Honestly I can't believe that I dispense this wisdom for free.

 

[Steve West]

We'd need to equip the officials with Scuba or at least a snorkel if they were expected to make their signal from the disc's location out of bounds. I guess red/green color blindness or standardized signals are of no consequence 'cause of "bushes."

I'm not sure how you got to the point of thinking I'm treating red/green colorblindness as of no consequence when I jumped in to offer thoughts on how best to signal to everyone.

My point was that a signal that depended on the position of the flags or some pattern of movement might easily be missed when performed at the place the spotter determines a disc was or was not OB. These signals are not usually first given from the middle of a mowed fairway. Most of the spotter's body might not even be visible. It would be better if the signal only depended on being able to see the flag itself.

I've thought the flags (paddles, sticks, whatever) should have a black mark on the middle of the red one, and a white mark in the middle of the green one. This could be a sponsor logo, type, or any shape. The "OB" flag might look like the maritime storm warning flag.