So the length of the lie stayed the same, but the width has been extended to just under 8". The idea was likely to use roughly the width of the disc as a guide, and in practice I'm pretty sure that's what players will go by. And as far as placing something behind the mini, that would lead to the potential of the mini getting bumped and moved during the plant/pivot.
-
Discover new ways to elevate your game with the updated DGCourseReview app!
It's entirely free and enhanced with features shaped by user feedback to ensure your best experience on the course. (App Store or Google Play)
Rules Changes for 2018
- Thread starter roblee
- Start date
So the length of the lie stayed the same, but the width has been extended to just under 8". The idea was likely to use roughly the width of the disc as a guide, and in practice I'm pretty sure that's what players will go by. And as far as placing something behind the mini, that would lead to the potential of the mini getting bumped and moved during the plant/pivot.
So now if you mark your lie with a mini, all the other players have to determine what 20cm is? This sounds impossible. It seems like it was easier to see if someones supporting point was behind a mini. No one will ever call foot faults now. The difference of 20-24cm is the with of 2 thumbs and that is 20% of the allowed width. Such a drastic rule change wont reach the casual or c-tier tournament player for years. Sure does make footing easier and throwing from poor lies when you spend so much effort worrying about your feet instead of the throw.
mizunodave
Birdie Member
- Joined
- Oct 29, 2015
- Messages
- 336
Which is fine, really. We're all just throwing frisbees in the woods for fun. This is fine.
Just don't mark the lie with a mini if you need a run up.
_MTL_
Flippy Flopper
- Joined
- Feb 19, 2008
- Messages
- 3,514
I was sent the list of changes a few months ago.
There's some really obvious changes that were needed such as no more 5M max on casual water drops and clarifying a lot of things such as when a player has two discs in his hand and tosses the one he's not using to the ground it's not a practice throw and clarifying holing out.
There's a great change that allows a TD to declare an area unplayable and give the player a free drop. This alligns with ground under repair rule in golf.
The big changes come to your drop after OB or 2M rule, the lie (as discussed before) and foot faults.
There's some really obvious changes that were needed such as no more 5M max on casual water drops and clarifying a lot of things such as when a player has two discs in his hand and tosses the one he's not using to the ground it's not a practice throw and clarifying holing out.
There's a great change that allows a TD to declare an area unplayable and give the player a free drop. This alligns with ground under repair rule in golf.
The big changes come to your drop after OB or 2M rule, the lie (as discussed before) and foot faults.
Last edited:
I have seen some spectacular foot faults at C-tiers. They would be absolute no-brainers to call even by the new rule.
In a nutshell, JC's correct...except (of course) for tee shots.
It just boils down to a couple of things.
1. If you think FFs ARE a big 'problem' (which personally I do) and,
2. How one fixes problems.
Using another 'golf' scenario / analogy, I fixed my slicing problem (which WAS more than a fade) not by slicing less and less and less, but rather by learning how to hook...and then weaning myself off that hook down to a straight shot. Work rather well (am a 7hcp).
Sooooo, a way to lessen the FF epidemic is to "start with people on their lie".
This will not 100% eliminate them (some people will still cheat and some people will inadvertently 'shuffle' off their lie, etc.) but it WILL help immensely.
[Okay, this is the time the naysayers will swoop in and say it's terrible, etc. No problem. I just have a partial solution which will probably cover more percentages of FFs that any other solution I've heard of here. But people think that 'change' will only affect THEM deleteriously...kind of funny....]
biscoe
* Ace Member *
Why do you and Sinclair feel the need to leak the stuff piecemeal beforehand? Unprofessional imo.
_MTL_
Flippy Flopper
- Joined
- Feb 19, 2008
- Messages
- 3,514
All this information is on the web if you know where to look. In fact, I Was sent a URL, not a hidden document. If it was intended to be hidden, it would be in the committee pages, which are private.
biscoe
* Ace Member *
agree on both points. stance violation should invalidate shot be the shot good or bad. wider "lie" just makes it more indefinite than it already is.
other than getting rid of the 2 meter rule i don't know if there has been a rules change in the last 20 years i have thought was an actual improvement. i'm sure there are others but they don't come to mind.
biscoe
* Ace Member *
why don't you spare us all the effort and share the URL in that case?
_MTL_
Flippy Flopper
- Joined
- Feb 19, 2008
- Messages
- 3,514
Provisional on OB shots - in the past you could only use provisionals on rule calls. That was a GREAT change.
True, though I'm curious as to why the secrecy, at all.
With great respect for the RC---but if they published pending changes, more people could hammer at them and perhaps find a few cracks. If there are any, much better to solve them before they take effect, and more eyes and brains and arguments increases the chances of doing so.
I'm not sure what the drawback would be. Any furor caused by releasing pending rules can't be any more than the furor caused when they're first released, as official.
I'm not suggesting they open the floor to debate at the beginning. Just that when they've agreed on changes, publish them, with the opportunity to tighten them up before they take effect, if needed.
_MTL_
Flippy Flopper
- Joined
- Feb 19, 2008
- Messages
- 3,514
I'm not on the RC. The reason I was sent the list was because it's necessary to understand the rules when doing course prep for next year's worlds. Example - when deciding how an OB Should play, it's important I understand the OB rules that will be in effect for the event.
The foul on this process could be the length of time before it goes into effect. If a rule change is going to be considered major, there needs to be a delay after it goes into effect. Some will point to the anchoring club rule in putting in golf, but that affected how someone hit the ball - I would hope that if the PDGA ever outruled thumbers, for example (not happening), they would give a year or two before it went into effect so players could get used to it.
I don't know if something like the lie changes (which technically make it easier to not foot fault, so not sure how much if any practice would be needed) would qualify. When I asked Shawn why he leaked it, he said "people need to know - less rumors and less false information" and then referenced the "no more jump putt" rumors that went around.
I'm not defending him or defending the PDGA, just pointing out a few thoughts.
- Joined
- Dec 19, 2009
- Messages
- 6,841
Would a rules committee with 30,000 members be more effective? That's what you'd have if every idea and debate were open to everyone.
It's a cycle, so the upcoming release IS the chance for everyone to hammer at them and then the cracks could be fixed for 2019. That's not much less time than it would take to fix the cracks "before" a release.
This I agree with. I think back to when they changed the 2-meter rule. It was officially done in the 2006 edition of the rule book but TDs were given the power to make it optional at least a year in advance of that, maybe two. Prior to the book change, a TD could declare no 2-meter penalty at the start of a tournament but if nothing was mentioned, the penalty remained in play. The official book reversed that, making the default that the penalty was not in play. The key thing being that the rule change was introduced and put in use before the book was changed.
IIRC, the same thing occurred with the order of play rules. TDs were allowed to instruct players that they could play out of turn with the away players permission, for the purposes of speeding play. But again it was only allowed if the TD specified. That was a "soft rule" for a year or two before the official change came to the book.
But since 2006, pretty much every change in the rule book has been more or less sprung on the membership when the new books (2011, 2013, now 2018) were published...usually right on January 1 of the new year when the online rules were updated. The only ones who weren't surprised were the ones privy to "leaks" in advance, like we've gotten now.
_MTL_
Flippy Flopper
- Joined
- Feb 19, 2008
- Messages
- 3,514
On the flip side, BOD votes on rule changes.
BOD is publicly elected.
I may find 1,000,000 people in my hometown that are upset a speed limit is 25 instead of 35 on a road, but that doesn't give us the power to change it.
krupicka
Double Eagle Member
deleted
Last edited:
I support a stand and deliver rule banning fairway runups. You don't get to spike a tee in the ground in ball golf, driving is different than subsequent shots.
BUT I actually like the wide line rule. There are two kinds of foot faults; ones that happen to be foot faults and ones that improve the lie. How often are people running up and improving their lie by missing 3" to one side? Not very often at all. Usually it is a mistake if the miss is that small. For those that actually improved their lie we are talking a foot at least.
To me this rule makes me disregard the ones where players run up and happen to miss their line without a real impact on play. It also gives an immediate penalty to those that take a lie improving foot fault.
I hate the no re-throw rule. Allows people to improve their lie for a stroke. No bueno.
BUT I actually like the wide line rule. There are two kinds of foot faults; ones that happen to be foot faults and ones that improve the lie. How often are people running up and improving their lie by missing 3" to one side? Not very often at all. Usually it is a mistake if the miss is that small. For those that actually improved their lie we are talking a foot at least.
To me this rule makes me disregard the ones where players run up and happen to miss their line without a real impact on play. It also gives an immediate penalty to those that take a lie improving foot fault.
I hate the no re-throw rule. Allows people to improve their lie for a stroke. No bueno.
