[Recommend] Salient Disc Golf

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the prometheus

when it comes to flight charts I use Joe's universal flight chart. it seems fuller and more accurate to me then marshall streets. I own the Prometheus. it's cool, but its a katana. don't get me wrong its wide diameter makes it real glidey and the plastic is super flexible so I'm sure someone out there will argue against that. it flips up and rides decently understable for its speed. I thought being 185 g would help it fight head winds better then it does, and its fade doesn't penetrate the way they boast. it is a good disc, I feel a flippy high speed driver is important part of the bag and this one does that job real well. I am glad I bought it but not sure if it will stay in the bag as my prodigy D4 breaks in. I don't own a bolt or a katana (anymore) so it fills the slot for now. even with that said I'll be excited when the release their next disc, I love new plastic.

 

[jswoods1984]

I'm ready to see the video that Mike C put together!! I wanna see how it will fly backhand for someone with a lot of power and spin

 

[Salient-Tech]

when it comes to flight charts I use Joe's universal flight chart. it seems fuller and more accurate to me then marshall streets. I own the Prometheus. it's cool, but its a katana. don't get me wrong its wide diameter makes it real glidey and the plastic is super flexible so I'm sure someone out there will argue against that. it flips up and rides decently understable for its speed. I thought being 185 g would help it fight head winds better then it does, and its fade doesn't penetrate the way they boast. it is a good disc, I feel a flippy high speed driver is important part of the bag and this one does that job real well. I am glad I bought it but not sure if it will stay in the bag as my prodigy D4 breaks in. I don't own a bolt or a katana (anymore) so it fills the slot for now. even with that said I'll be excited when the release their next disc, I love new plastic.

Thanks for you're feed back and interest. It's a disc that is very responsive to how you spin it. Try backing off the spin in a head wind with it. It has enough glide and is aerodynamic enough to fly well into a head wind without spinning it as much as a lot of drivers need. I have seen guys throw comets 400ft on a frozen rope into a 15 mph head wind, and some guys flip them over on a 200ft shot with a tail wind. Its all about spin control. See if that works for you. Keep in mind not every disc will work for everyone. So if it doesn't work for you thanks for giving it a shot!

 

[AndyJB]

heh heh..."Faileint." Funny.

 

[iacas]

Thanks for you're feed back and interest. It's a disc that is very responsive to how you spin it. Try backing off the spin in a head wind with it. It has enough glide and is aerodynamic enough to fly well into a head wind without spinning it as much as a lot of drivers need. I have seen guys throw comets 400ft on a frozen rope into a 15 mph head wind, and some guys flip them over on a 200ft shot with a tail wind. Its all about spin control. See if that works for you. Keep in mind not every disc will work for everyone. So if it doesn't work for you thanks for giving it a shot!

I have to ask this question given your answer above…

I've never seen people talking much about changing how much you "spin" a disc to change the type of shot you're throwing. I've paid attention, and I'm under the impression that the average disc golfer right on up to Paul McBeth and so on have "a backhand" and that's that. They can power it down if they only need to throw their mid-range 250', but they don't specifically regulate SPIN from what I can tell.

In other words, I've never heard of a pro saying he'll throw a disc XYZ feet with more spin to get it to do A, and with less spin XYZ feet to get it to do B.

In other words, "the spin is what it is" for virtually all shots of the same kind (I'm not comparing FH to BH).

Would you agree with that? And if so (again, I've never heard anyone talking about moderating their spin levels like this), how do you expect people to get the message that they need to start just to throw one disc "properly" or to get the most out of one disc?

 

[onemilemore]

I have to ask this question given your answer above…

I've never seen people talking much about changing how much you "spin" a disc to change the type of shot you're throwing. I've paid attention, and I'm under the impression that the average disc golfer right on up to Paul McBeth and so on have "a backhand" and that's that. They can power it down if they only need to throw their mid-range 250', but they don't specifically regulate SPIN from what I can tell.

In other words, I've never heard of a pro saying he'll throw a disc XYZ feet with more spin to get it to do A, and with less spin XYZ feet to get it to do B.

In other words, "the spin is what it is" for virtually all shots of the same kind (I'm not comparing FH to BH).

Would you agree with that? And if so (again, I've never heard anyone talking about moderating their spin levels like this), how do you expect people to get the message that they need to start just to throw one disc "properly" or to get the most out of one disc?

I've got a buddy who talks about throwing mids with more wrist than drivers, which I take in essence to mean more spin. I've certainly manipulated spin more in certain situations to hit tighter lines from standstills, so it is something that happens.

 

[thugjitsu]

I've heard one if the pros here talk about spin but more like he'll hold his midrange or driver with a slightly different grip to get less spin so his disc doesn't flip.

More along the lines using the same throw and snap but due to a slight change less spin is imparted instead of directly regulating spin through wrist control.

 

[Salient-Tech]

I have to ask this question given your answer above…

I've never seen people talking much about changing how much you "spin" a disc to change the type of shot you're throwing. I've paid attention, and I'm under the impression that the average disc golfer right on up to Paul McBeth and so on have "a backhand" and that's that. They can power it down if they only need to throw their mid-range 250', but they don't specifically regulate SPIN from what I can tell.

In other words, I've never heard of a pro saying he'll throw a disc XYZ feet with more spin to get it to do A, and with less spin XYZ feet to get it to do B.

In other words, "the spin is what it is" for virtually all shots of the same kind (I'm not comparing FH to BH).

Would you agree with that? And if so (again, I've never heard anyone talking about moderating their spin levels like this), how do you expect people to get the message that they need to start just to throw one disc "properly" or to get the most out of one disc?

Great question and point. There of course are lots of ways to do it. If the disc is all the way in your palm tucked in near your pinky you will have less spin then if it is out where your index finger hits your palm. The moment of release is shorter near your index finger allowing it to clear your hand and maintain spin.
The other way is to play with the tension of your wrist. You can tighten or loosen it in order to control your spin.
Spin control is important to be able to shape shots. A late turnover at 330' can not be accomplished consistently without it. Nor can a dead straight shot. That being said, some pros do it more then others. I'm thousand rated and I use spin, nose angle and hyzer angle to shape my shots with forehand, backhand and putting.
If I'm throwing dead straight into a head wind I typically back off the spin, but not always. It depends on which one will allow a mistake to not be as bad.
And you can obviously use "faster", "slower" and stable, understable and overstable as well. Ask two different pros and you will likely get two different answers. Let me know if that answers your question.

 

[hugheshilton]

Let me get some feed back or some unofficial votes from you guys. We have several molds we are working on. We are planning on releasing one of our midranges next. Would you like to see an overstable, stable or understable mid? What's your vote?

I would be interested in stable to overstable. I use an understable mid like an ESP Buzzz (or you could put the Atlas or Axis in this category) really only to throw longer left to right shots (RHBH). For most of my mid range game I throw either a Prodigy M2 (overstable) or M3 (stable). Those 2 probably straddle something like a Roc3 in terms of stability (M2 slightly more stable and M3 slightly less stable than a Roc3). I really like my mids to be very dependable and not to flip and burn on me in windy conditions so I just don't use understable mids for very many types of shots.

The discussion of a "longer" mid is interesting. I feel like a lot of the newer overstable mids are slightly longer than the old traditional Rocs (Roc3, M2/M3, etc.). However, more understable mids like the Buzzz have a lot more glide and travel farther. Oddly, that makes me want to throw them even less on holes where I want a mid range disc (say around 225 - 275 feet). Even though I could hyzer flip a Buzzz to go nice and straight for that distance, the extra glide can easily make me go past the basket when I don't want to. In that case I'd rather throw something with a nice predictable fade where I feel like I can control the distance better. Maybe that's just me, but that's my feeling on the matter.

 

[Dan Ensor]

Let me get some feed back or some unofficial votes from you guys. We have several molds we are working on. We are planning on releasing one of our midranges next. Would you like to see an overstable, stable or understable mid? What's your vote?

I'd like to see understable. Stable to overstable is covered so well already, and from one disc to another there isn't a whole lot of difference in flight, feel, etc. Roc, Buzzz, Neb, Drone, Gator, Pain, Core, Comet etc. Understable mids are more rare, and I have a hard time finding one I like. They have lots of different feels.

I may just not be trying the right discs, but those are my sentiments.

 

[Mike C]

Personally I notice a big difference between Comets and Gators, but that could just be me...

 

[curveball4]

Personally I notice a big difference between Comets and Gators, but that could just be me...

Well Mike obviously..................................

 

[Dan Ensor]

Personally I notice a big difference between Comets and Gators, but that could just be me...

Just sayin, the stable to overstable is fairly well covered. Drone/Gator, 2 feels same flight. Same with Nebula/Roc or Core/Comet. Comet/Roc, same feel, different flight; same with Nebula/Buzzz/Gator ...

I just think there's more room in the grand scheme of things in the understable department. That's my opinion.

 

[Mike C]

I agree I just wanted to have a little fun.

It seems like there isn't a definitive understable mid. Most people can throw say, a Roc for moderately overstable stuff, but understable mids I see a lot of people carrying many different things. I'm happy with my Tangents but I know some have trouble turning them as much as they want.

 

[Titan037]

Just sayin, the stable to overstable is fairly well covered. Drone/Gator, 2 feels same flight. Same with Nebula/Roc or Core/Comet. Comet/Roc, same feel, different flight; same with Nebula/Buzzz/Gator ...

I just think there's more room in the grand scheme of things in the understable department. That's my opinion.

Fuse, tangent, meteor, atlas, tursas, all different feel same flight, the market has all been covered but the trick is finding new innovative ways to approach it

 

[blair09]

I have my 170s bring fire on pre-order and am excited to see what it does with my 325 +- 15 ft arm. And far as mid go the post related to the buzz gliding over intended distance got me thinking. I come from a heavy ball golf background, I'm a 9 handicap, and a major principle is that it is easier to use a shorter club with a full swing then try to do a half swing with a longer club. This greatly improved consistency and distance control. Sure someone like Phil Mikelson can dial in his distance to a foot, but for most golfers that is hard.I don't know if this disc exists already, I'm fairly new, but I was thinking of a "gap wedge" of disc golf. A disc that with a full swing goes in between a mid and a putter, I hate having to either power up a putter or power down a mid.

 

[ZAMson]

A disc that with a full swing goes in between a mid and a putter, I hate having to either power up a putter or power down a mid.

The Tangent is really good for that. Its construction is a pretty literal tweener mid/driving-putter. Not many of those on the market.

 

[Dan Ensor]

Fuse, tangent, meteor, atlas, tursas, all different feel same flight, the market has all been covered but the trick is finding new innovative ways to approach it

None of those hold weight against a Roc, Buzzz, or Comet. I'm pretty sure the most popular understable mid is a beat Roc.

But since they were asking for an unofficial poll, I don't really need to justify my position.

 

[hugheshilton]

I'd like to see understable. Stable to overstable is covered so well already, and from one disc to another there isn't a whole lot of difference in flight, feel, etc. Roc, Buzzz, Neb, Drone, Gator, Pain, Core, Comet etc. Understable mids are more rare, and I have a hard time finding one I like. They have lots of different feels.

I may just not be trying the right discs, but those are my sentiments.

Okay, so I will confess I've never thrown a Negula, Drone, Pain, Core, or Comet. However, in my experience the Roc, Buzzz, and Gator are very different discs with distinctly different flight patterns. The Buzzz is the least stable of those 3 by far (at least in ESP plastic; maybe slightly more stable in Z). With Rocs, it depends on which model you're talking about and there is a definitive Roc thread on DGCR where people explain all the models that were made over the years, so I won't go through that here.

The Gator is actually significantly more overstable than a Roc and way more overstable than a Buzzz. It also has a lot less glide than either. If you watch "in the bag" type videos, most Innova pros carry a gator as a utility disc because it's so overstable they can always depend on it fading, even into a headwind. However, it's also too overstable with too little glide to throw most of the time where they want something more like a Roc.

The "feel" of disc in your hand with a Buzzz, Roc, or Gator is also very different. The Buzzz has a very flat top most of the time. The Roc is usually slightly more domey but not extremely domey. The rim of the Gator is much blunter and beefier than the other two, so it also has a different feel to it.

I don't want to be a dick or anything about how you are throwing, but if you don't get different lines with a Buzzz than a Gator, I'm not sure exactly what you're doing.

 

[hugheshilton]

I don't know if this disc exists already, I'm fairly new, but I was thinking of a "gap wedge" of disc golf. A disc that with a full swing goes in between a mid and a putter, I hate having to either power up a putter or power down a mid.

I really love the Vibram Ridge for a driving putter. It can take a full power throw without turning and burning, and I can get almost as much distance out of a drive with it as I can with a lot of mids. I have also heard of players that really love the Innova Pig for this type of thing, although I have never tried it.