Something that really could hold disc golf back...

[onemilemore]

...and I am not talking about the stoner stigma or lack of coverage on ESPN.

http://www.calaverasenterprise.com/news/article_d4a0143e-e20c-11e3-8b32-0019bb2963f4.html

This article covers how a new course in Northern California was shelved due to having to meet the standards of the Americans with Disabilities Act.

My hope is that the PDGA sees this and starts to maybe do some political outreach to make disc golf be recognized less as golf and more as an outdoor activity akin to hiking. Otherwise, public courses will be difficult to come by if they all need to be ADA-compliant. Of the two courses I play most often, only one could be considered easy to navigate with a wheelchair. The other plays up and down through steep terrain, even though it is in a city park.

Thoughts? Definitely would like this to be a coherent thread and one that offers some constructive thoughts, so maybe we can try and keep it on track and out of the landfill.

 

[depster]

I think this is a load of crap. I'm not saying that people with disabilities shouldnt play, but so pieces of land just wouldn't be able to have the necessary modifications to accomidate wheelchairs...I really hope this doesn't stop new courses in MO as well. The could turn into an epidemic and just needs to stay on the west coast.

 

[JFibeZZZ]

California has all kinds of strict rules brother.

 

[DavidSauls]

This subject came up several years ago, and I remember some citations of the law that seemed to indicate that it would not apply to disc golf. Probably before the 2010 changes in the law, cited in that article.

Other parts of the ADA call for "reasonable accommodation", and that would be the defense for many disc golf courses. I wouldn't worry too much about how much trouble it will cause us....but, then again, it is government, so I would worry some.

 

[cboucher]

Sounds like they're trying to lay the groundwork for some NIMBY loophole people can use to keep people out of "their" parks.

 

[Mike C]

What I don't understand is why this would apply to disc golf courses but not hiking trails in state parks?

 

[onemilemore]

California has all kinds of strict rules brother.

This is a federal law, not just CA.

What I don't understand is why this would apply to disc golf courses but not hiking trails in state parks?

Exactly. You can't do too much to make hiking trails ADA-friendly, other than making trailheads or accessible lookout points accessible. My thinking is that disc golf needs to brand itself more along the lines of hiking, mountain biking, or horseback riding, as opposed to golf.

 

[delaveagabeast]

California has all kinds of strict rules brother.

Sad but true.

It would be a crying shame if we see this preventing future courses. It's already bad enough here in CA, hippies crying about the tree damage here in the bay area. I would like to think I am typically compassionate to people with disabilities, but to imagine a course like Delaveaga or Stafford Lake having to be handicap accessible is just laughable. Granted they are already in place, thank heavens.

Bit off topic:

There are some disabled people who go around to gas stations/restaurants and if the public restroom doesn't match the exact handicap specifications, they sue and get an easy settlement for 10-15k. Some of these people have done this dozens of times, multiple institutions at once, it's a slam dunk case too sadly. If the toilet is too high, which 90% of places are, its an auto win.

My parents actually had one guy and his lawyer hit two of his stores for this. Needless to say, that, coupled with the fact you only make .11-.13 cents per gallon, my parents got out of the gas station business.

 

[Three Putt]

Trying to make an ADA compliant disc golf course makes as much sense as making an ADA compliant sand volleyball court.

 

[hempies]

ada.gov This is a federal law that has nothing to do with California. If the DOJ issues mandatory guidelines, this will be a consideration in every location that is planning a course on public land.

From the article...

"The DOJ did make a determination that a disc golf course has to follow the regulations for a regular golf course," Collom said.
Federal guidelines expanded in 2010 to cover recreation say that "Newly constructed and altered golf facilities must have either an accessible route or golf car passages with a minimum width of 48 inches …"

 

[Three Putt]

On the other hand...if this is legit and the DOJ stands on that assessment, we are dead. Done. Finished. Kaput. New courses won't go in. Places with aggressive risk management will start pulling courses built after 2010. That one ruling would effectively end any new disc golf courses on public land for good.

 

[Three Putt]

Federal guidelines expanded in 2010 to cover recreation say that "Newly constructed and altered golf facilities must have either an accessible route or golf car passages with a minimum width of 48 inches …"

See...that right there is the out. Disc golf is not golf. The course design is totally different. The DOJ is just too dumb to know that.

 

[Hampstead]

I have no problem with this applying to a pro shop, restroom or shelter house type of facility, but you can't change the terrain to make it ADA compliant without completely destroying the course. Of course, in some cases even that would be impossible.

 

[erock216]

Do wheelchair bound people play ball golf?

 

[onemilemore]

On the other hand...if this is legit and the DOJ stands on that assessment, we are dead. Done. Finished. Kaput. New courses won't go in. Places with aggressive risk management will start pulling courses built after 2010. That one ruling would effectively end any new disc golf courses on public land for good.

See...that right there is the out. Disc golf is not golf. The course design is totally different. The DOJ is just too dumb to know that.

Which is why I hope the PDGA has caught onto this and starts to do some lobbying. Clearly the DOJ is not educated about the sport. This would be one of those things the professional governing body should handle.

 

[Three Putt]

I have no problem with this applying to a pro shop, restroom or shelter house type of facility, but you can't change the terrain to make it ADA compliant without completely destroying the course. Of course, in some cases even that would be impossible.

Seriously, if I worked for a parks department and we had a disc golf course built since 2010 I'd have to pull the baskets today and wait for clarification on that ruling. If that's the legit official ruling from the DOJ, every course on public land built in the last four years is a sitting duck for a lawsuit.

 

[cboucher]

Sad but true.

It would be a crying shame if we see this preventing future courses. It's already bad enough here in CA, hippies crying about the tree damage here in the bay area. I would like to think I am typically compassionate to people with disabilities, but to imagine a course like Delaveaga or Stafford Lake having to be handicap accessible is just laughable. Granted they are already in place, thank heavens.

I hear you. My wife walks (very slowly and tediously) with a prosthetic leg due to a car accident from years ago. Whenever the family goes with me to courses like Stafford Lake or Skyline Wilderness Park, she hangs out in the picnic areas with the baby while me and my 8 year old son hit the course. It would be incredibly ridiculous to expect courses to accommodate her like that. I'd love to have her with me on the course, but this is completely unreasonable. It would be like requiring Half Dome to put in a huge wheelchair ramp up the steep side...

 

[Three Putt]

Which is why I hope the PDGA has caught onto this and starts to do some lobbying. Clearly the DOJ is not educated about the sport. This would be one of those things the professional governing body should handle.

Probably up to now they would have said "that covers golf and we are not golf" and not bothered with it. If it has officially been ruled on, they HAVE to do something. Not only that, but Innova, Discraft, Lat 64, DGA, Prodigy, Gateway...EVERYBODY needs to get on board and behind the effort to get that ruling changed.

 

[Hampstead]

Do wheelchair bound people play ball golf?

http://davesawtell.com/


My name is Dave Sawtell
….and I have Spina Bifida and paraplegia, so that you have an understanding of my disability I will give you a brief rundown of what this involves. I was born with these conditions which has caused damage to my nerves in my spine and paralysation in my legs which slows me down…

……but that doesn't stop me.

I am the world record holder for hitting a golf ball whilst sitting down.

 

[onemilemore]

Do wheelchair bound people play ball golf?

It doesn't matter if they do, though. The ADA is in place to make it so disabled people can do these things if they wanted to.