Successful Pay to Play Courses

[DavidSauls]

I really think kids under the age of about 14 - 16 play free actually makes sense for P2P courses, particularly those that have a tough time generating the volume needed to cover costs.

I can see how a guy on a tight budget might be hesitant to go to a course with his kids if he's gotta pay for all of them... might go to the free course instead. This also helps grow their future customer base.

One P2P course in my state once charged a player extra for his non-playing son, who was, I don't know, about 8 years old, and just going to walk with Dad. The furor got back to the local scene, in which the father was active. Not real good for the P2P's business.

 

[pearlybakerbest]

Though a few folks have dreamed of a Disc Golf Country Club, I think the model others hope to follow is less like golf, and more like other activities---a pay-to-play athletic venue. Of course, lacking the social benefits you describe, it won't command nearly the money.

Brackett's Bluff is the closet thing I've seen to a DG country club setting. I can't be sure, but I would guess that Dave may break even or turn a modest profit most years, but the land the course sits on was inherited and taxes the only cost besides maintenance. If you factor in his time it is probably as profitable as being a sleep away summer camp counselor (less than a dollar an hour) in what it pays him.

 

[VLaForce2002]

SInce "free" courses are paid for by tax payers and "p2p" courses are paid for by individual players, what do y'all think of changing the nomenclature:
Community paid courses
Player paid courses
Is it possible that reframing the discussion,both on the boards and more importantly in the media (read podcasts) have an affect on the disc golf culture over time? This is an old coot kind of comment, but I wish I could get the concept of nothing's for free into the "disc charger" crowd

 

[BogeyNoMore]

I see what you're driving at, but what about public park courses that are P2P?
They're partially subsidized by taxes, but if you don't pay the additional park entry fee (and in some cases a separate DG fee) you ain't playing. That's that case with many of the courses around here. They aren't exactly player paid, nor community paid.

They'd cost even more to play if the parks didn't receive any public funding... much like a municipal golf course vs. a country club.

 

[DavidSauls]

I see what you're driving at, but what about public park courses that are P2P?
They're partially subsidized by taxes, but if you don't pay the additional park entry fee (and in some cases a separate DG fee) you ain't playing. That's that case with many of the courses around here. They aren't exactly player paid, nor community paid.

They'd cost even more to play if the parks didn't receive any public funding... much like a municipal golf course vs. a country club.

This.

Plus the fact that privately-owned P2P courses are paid for by someone other than the players, too.

Oh, the players pay part of the load. But if you're paying $5 or $10 to play on a golf course or ski slope or other commercial facility, you're not paying for the land or infrastructure. The golfers and skiers are. If you're paying to play in someone's yard, you aren't, either.

And to further blur it, if you don't want to include those costs on P2P courses, many of those free-to-pay public courses aren't paid for by taxpayers, either. Yes, the taxpayers pay for the land, but in a lot of examples the course itself---the baskets, teepads, signs, and upkeep other than mowing---were paid for by local disc golfers.

 

[John Rock]

Doubtful that any of the "disc charger crowd" really pay attention to media of any kind.

 

[dr.chainslove]

We had a short run at a P2P in Louisville, the heralded Coyote Trace. It was on it's way to becoming a top 20 course on this site (4.64 at 21 reviews). I would have gladly given $200-$300 for an annual membership. Sadly, the riffraff caused its demise after maybe 6 months. The owner was an awesome guy but he couldn't keep up with the rule-breakers (showing up without a tee time/permission, littering, acting like idiots, etc). Once he kicked out a few bad apples, one of these vindictive dip****s alerted the county officials who then tried to rope the owner into some costly re-zoning BS. I don't know if this was the exact reason for shutting it down QUOTE]

I played Coyote once and loved it, I predicted it as a future top 10. I heard on this site they had EAB problems with Ash trees and flooding problems so it had to close. Since you seem
to be a local, maybe that's the true story.

Yep, both of those were factors that contributed to the shutdown.

 

[Chiefstang]

You'll know P2P has truly become financially viable when some outfit opens multiple course locations under its label and then franchises their model like Putt-Putt Miniature Golf. Maybe that will happen in Maine first?

"Destination Disc" runs most of the top-rated Colorado courses you see in the top 20 list here. All P2P.

 

[jeremyhilss]

Rollin Ridge in WI appears to be doing well. I would attribute some of that to the fact that they have a clubhouse with Pro Shop, food, and alcohol. And proximity to population base.

Can't imagine a private course being profitable without a lot of diversification. Food, drink, gear, lodging, tournaments, leagues, full service for every possible need. NO WAY a $5 or $10 green fee can come close to covering a fraction of costs. IMO the bar has been set way too low for greens fees.

I own a private course that is not pay to play at this time. But even if it was pay to play, the only days that would come anywhere near being profitable would be the days that I took off and didn't go to my course. Because those days cost me less...

Reality is, charging a nonminal $5 green fee would probably cost me more than letting people play for free. For reference, I live an hour away from my course. And my course is hours from a population base.

Fortunately, I didn't go into this for the $$$, I'm doing this because I love disc golf, and I was able to acquire a suitable property, and build some holes, and share my love of the game with my family, friends and new friends I have yet to meet. While leaving a positive mark on this planet after I'm gone.

I sure wish a petty and jealous local was correct about me being a billionaire dg course owner becoming a famous trillionaire off of of my courses SIGH!

Lmao now you're literally pulling sh*t out of your ass hahahahaha I never said that lololol

 

[jeremyhilss]

Oh and by the way, I am not jealous of your garbage, unsafe crisscrossing clusterf**k of holes you've got going on over there. Gonna laugh so hard when someone sues you cause they got cranked in the head with a 14 speed on your #-shaped fairways xD

I won't deny, however, I was petty that out of spite for me not taking any more of your holier than thou lectures and standing up for myself, that you needed to steal a dg project from me when you got your own massive plot of land. Oh well just goes to show your true colors to me.

 

[Peterb]

We have a mostly unsuccessful course at Emerald Hills here in the bay area. Well, it depends upon your point of view whether or not it is successful. Here's what it has going for it:
- fun course with some good challenge
- smack dab in the middle of silicon valley, so the population is there
- beer is available, some crappy food
- manicured, since it's on a golf course
- a fun weekly league with an ace and an eagle pot
- no riff raff, waits, disc chargers, one disc wonders, etc

What it doesn't have going for it:
- a lot of players. That's because despite it's silicon valley location the elks lodge that runs the place insists on charging regular greens fees which is $15 for nine holes ($22 for a full 18)
- nice people working there who understand DG
- a decent pro shop
- food that you'd actually want to eat
- a bar open to the public. They have three bars at the lodge but only for members
- it is a bit off in a suburban hilly neighborhood, but not that big of a deal
- only on a 9 hole golf course so a little wonky for tournies

But it has long since reached ROI, so now any $ coming in is pure gravy for the Elks. We need to get better tee pads now though...probably concrete or turf coming. All in all its a fun course, and its in my hometown, so I play quite a bit. Definitely enjoy the peace and serenity it provides but sometimes miss the scene of a golden gate park

 

[ru4por]

Oh and by the way, I am not jealous of your garbage, unsafe crisscrossing clusterf**k of holes you've got going on over there. Gonna laugh so hard when someone sues you cause they got cranked in the head with a 14 speed on your #-shaped fairways xD

I won't deny, however, I was petty that out of spite for me not taking any more of your holier than thou lectures and standing up for myself, that you needed to steal a dg project from me when you got your own massive plot of land. Oh well just goes to show your true colors to me.

if you want to have a personal flame war with the guy, he has made a thread for just that kind of stuff. Using that one would help keep this thread on track.

http://https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=129571

 

[jeremyhilss]

if you want to have a personal flame war with the guy, he has made a thread for just that kind of stuff. Using that one would help keep this thread on track.

http://https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=129571

Sounds like a plan

But if we're being fair, maybe someone should tell him to keep the thread on track too, instead of throwing in some smart aleck comment at the end of his post that has nothing to do with either

A: this thread
B: the rest of his entire post

 

[Casey 1988]

Browns Farm in western New York is an okay to starting to go south disc golf course, It has Good baskets original Mach II from a course in Rochester. It is a natural course since it is a disc golf only course and is near some major population areas like 35-40 minutes from Buffalo. Also not to far from there is the Rochester area about 20-30 minutes away, one of the early disc golf areas. The cousrse though Chased off an uncle of mine due to his course work and then anybody related to him. Appartently the owner it wants one basket to be unusable with wild roses on the basket. He also wants a fairway so tight you actually can't get a disc to the basket unless you can do a Sky shot that lands in the basket as the only other open spot besides the tee box that is so tight with other plants you can only stand to throw no run up or anything. Besides that, the course is nice and all the baskets are kept the way the owner got the course and land from the old owner so those two baskets and holes stay the way they were when bought from the original owner.

 

[Casey 1988]

Another good pay to play course is well not so much a pay to play as more of on South Dakota State Park land So pay for those who do not have a State Park license is, Powerhouse Ally in Pierre SD. Now that course got new Mach III as of end of last year and are the Colored type, our local Club got the funds to Pay for the extra parts the State would not like the Colored Basket part, alternate pins and a practice Basket, a Mach II or something else as it has the newer Bottom that a Mach III on up have but I can tell it is a Mach II. The club then took the tops of the old Mach III and put them on the no pay open course calles Steamboat. So they have old Lighting DB-5 everything except the tops from Old the Mach III's at Powerhouse Ally.

Powerhouse Ally the course area is maintained by both the Park and partially the club in the area. The practice basket even has a smaller concrete tee pad compaired to the two that each hole has, put in by the State and funds from the state as the noticed the natural tee off was worn in to the point people were tripping over a root on one hole.

 

[DoWork]

I oversee a P2P here in Southern VT at Magic Mountain. It can be very hard to justify cost directly, but when surrounded by other operational elements it can be a great addition to a recreation based business with concessions.

We are a ski area first and foremost. We have a great bar and kitchen, but limited draw during the summer. Weekend crowds are family-heavy but growing however we were looking to add a few low key recreational outlets. Given our awesome terrain, disc golf seemed like a great idea. We built the front 9 last spring, and developed it throughout the year. We use framed surepac tees and prodigy T1 baskets. Really nice maps and signage, trash cans, very regular mowing of fairways and on-trail roughs as well as meticulous wood fairway cleaning. Foot bridges, rock walls and killer views are all over. Many of our visitors just love hiking the course and don't even play.

We offer a 3 pack bag of Magic foil logo Prodigy discs as rentals for $5 and also charge $5 for greens fees, Magic logo discs are also available for purchase but we do not have a well stocked pro shop by any means. While that trickle of cash is pretty decent at times it could never cover the cost of upkeep and payroll. That comes in when the people stay with their family for lunch or dinner, a concert etc. To build on what we've got going so far, the back 9 is being added this spring, league night is coming this season and several tournaments as well, including a night 3-disc LED tournament which is freakin awesome.

The back 9 is going to be beyond epic. From playing the f9 dozens and dozens of times we really figured out how we want to take the back 9 up another level. Lots of hiking and surveying later and we are still playing with small layout tweaks, but it's going to feature some monsters. Huge scenic bomber 600+, a couple really cool gullies and some really unique elevation changes just to be vague. Both the front and back 9 loop from the lodge back to it, so families and those looking to break it up or leave early have that option. Hole 18 will be a huge huge downhill hole that will end right at the lodge too. Can't wait to unveil this course!

Anyways, short term returns simply do not exist in a P2P course unless you've got a high volume operation that somehow costs almost nothing. The course is growing simply as a project of a larger operation and I really hope that smart design along with capable staff can keep the course up to pay-course amenities snuff while keeping costs manageable. Really hoping we can offer a top tier product once things are dialed, and looking forward to making incremental improvements over the next several years. There's even been talk of doing an all-monster-downhillers course from the top of our Green Chair chairlift next spring, which would likely be a special event course as it would require running the chairlift for. It all depends on how the disc golfing public responds to the course and the events, so I hope to meet a lot of you guys and girls this summer.

Anybody who's played the course please feel free to critique the place, we are always looking to improve if we can afford to.