Tail Marking - feedback wanted

[Stardoggy]

It's not uncommon in Rec and lower divisions to roll up with one disc. Not everyone plays tourneys to win crap either. Whether you think it's stupid or not, if you get rid of minis you are making people carry at least 2 discs in the rules. That would make disc golf a tiny bit more exclusive in nature.

I have yet to see a player in a sanctioned tournament walk up with one disc, regardless of division. "It's not uncommon" is just ridiculous.

 

[Steve West]

I have yet to see a player in a sanctioned tournament walk up with one disc, regardless of division. "It's not uncommon" is just ridiculous.

It's probably more common outside the WI/MN area. You know, the hinterlands, where less than 100% of all people are players.

 

[TYVEK]

I never use minis unless I absolutely have to, so to me the current rule works just fine. no reason to change it.

 

[DglaserOhio]

I'm a big fan of Tail Marking!...In ball golf, even moving the ball ever so slightly is a penalty. The exact lie is one of the arbitrary things that make the game interesting and challenging. The same goes for Disc Golf, maybe even more so. Every course is different, with trees, rough, shrubs, rocks etc. Marking a disc with a mini to gain any advantage, should be out of the question. I look forward to the day when course designers start to employ more ideas to create character to a hole, i.e. gravel or sand (traps) to hamper solid footing. Let's get the rule changed so it is consistent for everyone and all shots. The vertical stand up could be used when the same disc is preferred, and mini placement the same for above ground discs or OB meter marking. Speed up play and fairness across the board.

 

[curt]

There isn't anything unfair about the current rule. It applies to everyone exactly the same, so it is fair.

 

[DG_player]

Does it make more sense that you can't improve your lie by the simple act of marking it? Yes

Would it speed play if there was no longer an advantage to marking your lie? Yes

Is it worth changing the rule at this point? Maybe not

 

[BrotherDave]

Does it make more sense that you can't improve your lie by the simple act of marking it? Yes

Does this really matter if you're still allowed 30 cm regardless? If that's your basis for going to tail marking, then you'd have to get rid of the 30 cm too as a logical extension, right?

This is one of those areas where disc golf is simply foolish trying to emulate ball golf. Their lie is where the ball ends up which they hit with a stick. Our ball and stick is combined into a disc; it just doesn't compare.

 

[JedV]

I don't see how this could speed up pace of play. No marking, sure. But to me tail marking and replacing the disc with a mini will be the same time spent.

I'm a strong no for this.

 

[JeremyKShort]

I don't see how this could speed up pace of play. No marking, sure. But to me tail marking and replacing the disc with a mini will be the same time spent.

I'm a strong no for this.

Since marking your mini moves you back, I guess you'd only do it if you really, really need that disc. So less people will mark.

IDK, I think I'm fine with things like it is. Out of all the things that slow down a round, marking discs with a mini seems to be pretty inconsequential.

 

[coupe]

Since marking your mini moves you back, I guess you'd only do it if you really, really need that disc. So less people will mark.

Except that tail marking with your mini DOES NOT move you back.

"Tail marking" is a proposed change in how minis are used to mark. Instead of placing the mini in front of the thrown disc, you align the tail of the mini with the tail of the thrown disc. The result is that you have the same lie regardless of the marking method chosen.

 

[cc0049]

We just had a major bruhaha at the Memorial (I think) b/c Philo took a couple of decades between throws.

30 seconds is not a lot of time and people go over it all the time waiting for wind, picking a different disc at the last second, etc. IDK why you think 15 would be any easier, is there some sort of limit to the average human's ability to count I don't know about? JohnE seemed to count to thirty and beyond pretty well at that same tournament. :\

Man, I just disagree with you. 30 seconds is a lot of time, and more than is necessary in most circumstances. Things like wind, or an unusually tough lie can be taken into consideration when it comes to enforcing the rule. I'm referring mainly to "that guy" that wants to stand there for every shot pumping his arm 700 times and changing his mind about discs. That nonsense needs to be done away with.

You really don't know why 15 would be easier? People would be more willing to actually count out 15 one thousand than 30 one thousand because it doesn't take as long. Take this for granted all you want, but it is true.

 

[coupe]

Man, I just disagree with you.

You're entitled to your wrong opinion.

You really don't know why 15 would be easier? People would be more willing to actually count out 15 one thousand than 30 one thousand because it doesn't take as long. Take this for granted all you want, but it is true.

Your saying it's true doesn't make it true. Until you provide concrete evidence to prove it's true, it's nothing more than an unsubstantiated conjecture.

 

[BrotherDave]

Man, I just disagree with you. 30 seconds is a lot of time, and more than is necessary in most circumstances. Things like wind, or an unusually tough lie can be taken into consideration when it comes to enforcing the rule. I'm referring mainly to "that guy" that wants to stand there for every shot pumping his arm 700 times and changing his mind about discs. That nonsense needs to be done away with.

You really don't know why 15 would be easier? People would be more willing to actually count out 15 one thousand than 30 one thousand because it doesn't take as long. Take this for granted all you want, but it is true.

You can do away with that nonsense by enforcing the 30 second rule instead of encouraging everyone else to play speed golf.

You know what's easier than counting out 15 seconds? Pulling out a phone and setting a timer to 30 seconds. Or looking at a watch with a second hand go half way across the face. :\

Not counting at all seems to be the easiest since nobody does it.

 

[hellbound]

Personally I don't think it broken the way it is currently.
1)backside of a tree- do I use a mini? no for safety reasons with chance of hitting a tree.
2)front side of a tree- do I use a mini? yes. how else would I get a legal stances when its leaning at the base of the tree. nose marking would require people to stop and say I can't make a legal stance so I get to move to the back side of the tree.

As for opening up to 30cm side to side (if I read it right) I can see it taking those questionable foot-faults out some. courses are getting longer and longer so the old s&d is not the right dirrections that need to be taken. lets say we need to have a tired system on how wide of an area outside of mark you get. ie

Pros- current line of play
Advance 6 inches window (s&d=line of play)
Int and below- 12 inches window (s&d= line of play)

yes its more rules people would have to learn but it would help with calling footfaults and build up the footwork as skill levels go up.

 

[JeremyKShort]

Except that tail marking with your mini DOES NOT move you back.

Looking at that description you quoted, I've got no idea how it would speed up rounds. Tail marking in that manner would almost certainly take longer than marking in front of the nose.

 

[JedV]

Looking at that description you quoted, I've got no idea how it would speed up rounds. Tail marking in that manner would almost certainly take longer than marking in front of the nose.

Exactly. This is nutty.

 

[DG_player]

Looking at that description you quoted, I've got no idea how it would speed up rounds. Tail marking in that manner would almost certainly take longer than marking in front of the nose.

It would speed up play because you would never bother to mark your disc, unless you wanted to re-throw that disc.

 

[grodney]

*IF* you're going to allow the thrown disc to be used as the marker, then tail marking is the only logical and consistent way to mark when using a mini. Logic and consistency make the game better.

It's that simple.

I'm struggling to see the relevance of any other discussion/points. I suppose "Is it worth changing the rule to gain that logic and consistency?" could be debated. It's a pretty clear "yes" for me, but whatever.

 

[araytx]

*IF* you're going to allow the thrown disc to be used as the marker, then tail marking is the only logical and consistent way to mark when using a mini. Logic and consistency make the game better.

It's that simple.

I'm struggling to see the relevance of any other discussion/points. I suppose "Is it worth changing the rule to gain that logic and consistency?" could be debated. It's a pretty clear "yes" for me, but whatever.

Yes, grodney, correct. My point is, however, IF logic and consistency is the issue, then NEITHER is more favorable. Going back to requiring a mini on every throw is the MOST consistent and the MOST logical. Tail-marking is only a discussion point because the PDGA began allowing the thrown disc to be the marker disc.

So we first have to decide if logic and consistency is the most important, or speed of play is the most important. Not saying you can't have both, but you can't maximize both.

 

[grodney]

Yes, grodney, correct. My point is, however, IF logic and consistency is the issue, then NEITHER is more favorable. Going back to requiring a mini on every throw is the MOST consistent and the MOST logical. Tail-marking is only a discussion point because the PDGA began allowing the thrown disc to be the marker disc.

So we first have to decide if logic and consistency is the most important, or speed of play is the most important. Not saying you can't have both, but you can't maximize both.

Yep. Totally agree.

Using the thrown disc makes the game better (pretty clearly). Logic and consistency make the game better. Can't have 100% of both. So which makes the game more better?

If(!) thrown disc makes it more better, then how do you get the most possible logic and consistency? Tail marking.