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United States disc golf championships
- Thread starter Mack eby
- Start date
You don't line Philo?
Not enough to watch a 4 hour stream 2 weeks after the event.
I'm rewatching Worlds again instead.
Great event.
Gotcha. I was thinking about it more last night, and I think that team sports are generally more random than individual sports. Bowling seems random, but pros know exactly how to get a strike. Darts (whether you call it a sport or not) is all about where you throw the dart. Tennis has some random aspects (how the ball reacts off the top of the net), but that's a very small part. Golf has, for at least a century, been attempting to remove the more random aspects. DG is probably the most random individual sport I thought of.
Not sure how this plays into the discussion at all, just a point I thought about.
I agree with what you said about recovery shots being more enjoyable, courses with trees being more enjoyable, etc.
Your thoughts about OB are all with the current OB rules, and I think there are better ways to punish those shots fairly. You've stated you disagree. So be it.
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I probably understand you, but I'd rather not make logical leaps from that picture to what I think you're saying. What about that hole makes for a smooth punishment curve, and why would wider be better?
Earlier I said that Winthrop Gold is in the strategic school of design, but watching the event yesterday, I realized I was wrong; it's definitely in the heroic school of design. So many shots on the course are "go for it or lay up." 2's approach, 3, 5's approach, 6, 7, 9, 10, 11 (all), 12 (all), 13, 14, 16, and 17 are all obvious "here's a safe landing zone and here's another landing zone." Others (4, 5's drive, 8's drive, 15's drive, and 18 (all)) are that way to a lesser extent.
Golf is different than DG in that you have to make a space for a fairway (hitting a ball off of normal American grass or soil is no bueno). But in DG, there's an inherent ability to "lay up" because there's almost always a spot along the fairway to layup (holes where you have to throw over a short bush/tree off the tee are the only exception I can think of).
Anyway, I was thinking about what Rastnav said and the heroic school of design. I agree very much that OB/Hazard near an LZ is much more punitive. That's a gripe with water on golf courses as well; if you carry 99% of the water, you barely advance the ball and have a stroke added. There are also some positive aspects to it as well. Without it, we don't have hole 17 (I think most people like this hole, although most agree it'd be better if it were a true island).
Where I'm going is that I think I don't dislike ropes; I think I dislike that 15ish of the 17 holes are heroic, requiring someone to constantly play this way. If there were 0 ropes on the course and water replaced all the OB/hazard, then I'd still not like it. I think heroic holes (where you either have to layup/play safe or go for it and risk the punishment) are better done sparsely. I think it's great if you have a course that builds up to a heroic hole (one of the last few) and forces you to make a decision: play for an amazing shot on that hole and risk your round score, or swallow your pride and play safe. I'm a very inexperienced designer, but the more I read about design, this is what the better golf designers suggest.
Simply put, I dislike the amount of OB, but I think OB in small doses at specific time can really add to a course.
Ah. I started this digression not about random aspects, but the notion that nearly-identical shots having different results is an argument against OB. Specifically, the statements by someone that shots a few inches inbounds and a few inches out of bounds are so different; and that a shot a few inches out of bounds, or 60 feet out of bounds, are treated the same.
That's true in darts (except with much smaller distances), and tennis (an inch on either side of the line makes all the difference, but a missing the backline by an inch is the same as one sailed into the stands).
I don't think the "nearly identical shots with vastly different outcomes" is much of an argument against OB, whether a lake, property line, or rope.
Great point. I knew my rabbit trail would help clarify the situation (looks around to make sure no one notices the obvious lie).
Seriously though, that's an excellent point. All sports need hard boundaries. Even in golf, you can't hit the ball off the property. I think there's a valid argument for less lines in DG, but not removing them altogether.
We have this "hard boundary" in another aspect of DG: we don't award half-strokes, even if a disc is leaning on the pole.
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KillerKoala777
Par Member
- Joined
- Feb 3, 2021
- Messages
- 120
DGN has said over and over, there will be post production made, for DGN subs, commentated by Sexton and someone else.
THERE WILL BE NO FREE COVERAGE THIS YEAR. The only way to watch is to pay now, or be a DGN subscriber and you will get it in a month. Nothing will be on YouTube (unless they agree on something different than what is currently agreed upon)
I think he just meant that the sides of the fairway were about as smooth as it gets. Was joke.
I think anyway.
haha fair. I'm often the last in the room to get a joke.
Another course feature I like: the women teeing off on hole 13 from the hill left of the MPO tee. I hope that future changes include pulling that hill into play for MPO too. I kinda remember what is behind that hill, and they could allow for multiple lines coming out of the woods. A good idea would be to allow a hyzer that is kinda sawed off and doesn't get great distance, or a high flex line over the hill that allows for distance but is much harder to execute due to that shot being harder and the LZ getting smaller the further you throw. Right now good shots are rewarded with a somewhat easy layup. These changes would make that second shot more interesting (along with removing the boring drive). Perhaps there are better ways to change it though.
mostlynorwegian
Tosser with plastic
- Joined
- May 25, 2017
- Messages
- 566
Short answer is NO... I suspect it will be an experiment that will not be repeated, And that's because it misses a marketing opportunity with all of the additional (free to the viewer) post production coverage. Live coverage might be thrilling for some people, and that pay per view long view look provided by the live coverage model is what gets their jollies. But, the rest of us enjoy the condensed post produced to a two part coverage without all of the navel gazing conversation that fills the airtime with words. And that's because post produced coverage is easier to digest.
skottyb
Eagle Member
https://www.discgolfnetwork.com/packages/united-states-disc-golf-championship-fan-pass/
If you subscribe you can watch coverage here as well. But of course not free.
It seems the two most commonly-expressed opinions of the USDGC, seem to be It's stupid (course design and rules) and Why can't we watch?! (for free).
Admittedly, not always by the same people. But it certainly generates a lot of attention, and passion.
Admittedly, not always by the same people. But it certainly generates a lot of attention, and passion.
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