Using Paint on Discs

[BillFleming]

On another forum thread, there's a discussion about adding paint to a disc for design purposes (it's in the dyeing forum).

Link: https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=142297

Part of the discussion concerns this wording (bolded part):

813.01 Illegal Disc:
Other modifications to a disc after production make the disc illegal, including but not limited to:
C. Modifying the disc in a way that alters its original flight characteristics;
1. Excessively sanding the disc;
2. Etching, carving, or engraving the disc;
3. Adding a material of a detectable thickness such as paint.
4. Intentionally deforming a disc such that it is not in a circular, saucer-like configuration.

One view is that the PDGA considers paint as being illegal, period. (i.e. that paint is always a "material of a detectable thickness)
The other view is that the PDGA considers paint being illegal ONLY if it can be detected.

So which view is correct? Is a disc illegal if any paint is added to a disc? Or is it only illegal if the paint is of a detectable thickness, for example, can be felt by running a finger over it?

 

[BillFleming]

BTW - my take on it is that a painted disc is illegal. It seems to go like this:

Adding a material of a detectable thickness makes the disc illegal. What is an example of a material that meets that definition? Paint.

Notice the rule doesn't say SOME paints. It says paint.

 

[jakebake91]

I'd agree that paint is illegal and is of a measurable thickness.

I'd also argue that I can measure the thickness of most stock stamps also. I don't understand why one is bad and one is allowed.

 

[BillFleming]

I'd agree that paint is illegal and is of a measurable thickness.

I'd also argue that I can measure the thickness of most stock stamps also. I don't understand why one is bad and one is allowed.

Because one (stamp) was part of the disc when the disc was approved and the other (paint) wasn't.

 

[dmoore1998]

It doesn't even matter if the paint is of a detectable thickness IMO. This isn't a list of "these are the only things which are illegal". There is a specific rule which states what modifications MAY be made...paint of a non-detectable thickness is not on that list. This is a supplementary list of some things people may specifically wonder about.

Also, for the record, paint has a detectable thickness. It's not "you" can detect it...it is that it is detectable. I'm not aware of anything that would qualify as paint that has no detectable thickness.

 

[BogeyNoMore]

Stock and other stamps, even if they are of detectable thickness, are a normal and accepted part of the manufacturing process.

The PDGA rule specifically applies to post production modifications of a disc.

Anything on the disc when it leaves the factory is legal if the disc is otherwise PDGA approved.

Do I really think painting a disc will truly give someone an "unfair" competitive advantage?

Maybe. Maybe not. But, for the integrity of the sport, I can see where the PDGA needs to draw a line to limit what people can do to a disc and still call it legal.

This is where they drew the line.

 

[BillFleming]

Further clarification on the question....dyeing a disc is legal. Using Sharpie/marker on a disc is legal. The rule "seems" to indicate that ANY paint on the disc makes it illegal....but paint can be put on very thin and not have a detectable thickness (and this is part of the argument, in the other thread, that pain CAN be legal).

So, the question is, does the rule mean that paint (period) makes a disc illegal...or does the rule mean that ONLY if the paint has a detectable thickness does the disc become illegal?

 

[krupicka]

If someone were to email the rules committee, we are very consistently saying putting paint on a disc is illegal.

 

[TheOtherBill]

If someone were to email the rules committee, we are very consistently saying putting paint on a disc is illegal.

So the acetone mixed with dye method applied with brushes is illegal? Is the root problem that paint would add weight to discs?

 

[biscoe]

So the acetone mixed with dye method applied with brushes is illegal? Is the root problem that paint would add weight to discs?

Dye is dye regardless of how applied. Same goes for paint. I believe the answer to your second question is it can potentially alter the flight characteristics through either adding weight or changing the shape but i am not on the RC.

 

[chevis]

...
This is where they drew painted the line.

ftfy

 

[chevis]

Because one (stamp) was part of the disc when the disc was approved and the other (paint) wasn't.

most discs sent to pdga for approval have no stamp

Anything on the disc when it leaves the factory is legal if the disc is otherwise PDGA approved.

so if a company was to put paint on a disc in the factory it would be legal?

 

[BogeyNoMore]

most discs sent to pdga for approval have no stamp

so if a company was to put paint on a disc in the factory it would be legal?

Ask Krupicka.
opcorn:

My guess: such a disc wouldn't get PDGA apporoval.

 

[chevis]

Ask Krupicka.
opcorn:

My guess: such a disc wouldn't get PDGA apporoval.

yeah, my guess is companies/factories know better

 

[krupicka]

Ask Krupicka.
opcorn:

My guess: such a disc wouldn't get PDGA apporoval.

The RC answers the questions post-production. The TSWG handles all of the details with manufacturers producing the discs. I do not know what the TSWG would say about paint as part of the production process.

 

[BogeyNoMore]

The RC answers the questions post-production. The TSWG handles all of the details with manufacturers producing the discs. I do not know what the TSWG would say about paint as part of the production process.

I just had to look up TSWG: Technical Standards Working Group.

Makes sense. Thanks Mike!

 

[philstine]

The RC answers the questions post-production. The TSWG handles all of the details with manufacturers producing the discs. I do not know what the TSWG would say about paint as part of the production process.

So if the TSWG approved paint as part of the production process and a mfg released a disc with painted artwork of detectable thickness, would wiping the artwork make the disc illegal?

 

[RFrance]

I only play for fun. I found out I was colorblind after searching for discs that I thought could be easily found (such as bright yellow) disappear into the background. If I can't buy a disc I would like in a color I can see (blue), I buy what they have and then when I get the disc I spray paint it blue so I can find it. I did find that even a light spray could add about 2 grams of weight.

 

[BogeyNoMore]

I only play for fun. I found out I was colorblind after searching for discs that I thought could be easily found (such as bright yellow) disappear into the background. If I can't buy a disc I would like in a color I can see (blue), I buy what they have and then when I get the disc I spray paint it blue so I can find it. I did find that even a light spray could add about 2 grams of weight.

As long as you're just playing casual rounds, can't blame you for doing what you need to do, to make your discs easier to find and keep the game enjoyable for you. :thmbup:

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On a different subject, I'm aware there are different types of colorblindness. I have a friend who's red-green colorblind, and he bags a lot of yellow because that contrasts well against green for him (whereas yellow gives me the most trouble). He had trouble with red and orange. Don't know how blue works for him, but lt blue id great to me. Med and dark blue, nor so much.

 

[dmoore1998]

Further clarification on the question....dyeing a disc is legal. Using Sharpie/marker on a disc is legal. The rule "seems" to indicate that ANY paint on the disc makes it illegal....but paint can be put on very thin and not have a detectable thickness (and this is part of the argument, in the other thread, that pain CAN be legal).

So, the question is, does the rule mean that paint (period) makes a disc illegal...or does the rule mean that ONLY if the paint has a detectable thickness does the disc become illegal?

The rule section being quoted isn't really relevant to whether a disc is legal IMO. There is a section which specifically calls out the ONLY things that can be done to a disc to modify them. Paint is not one of them. Applying an unnamed material of non-detectable thickness is not one of them. This "you cannot do these things" section is a nice little "people try to do these things, just a reminder, none are legal" statement.

And I'm not an expert on non-detectable thicknesses, but I would doubt any paint is going on that isn't detectable. It's not "a person can see the thickness, or feel the thickness". To have a non-detectable thickness, I would think it needs to seep into the plastic, essentially making it a dye? Either way, not necessarily relevant...this isn't a full list of illegal things. It's a short example list to complement the list of allowable modifications already set forth.