What rules infractions do you call in Tournament play?

[DiscLoser1]

I also have called "friendly warnings" when the player foot faults while throwing a bad shot. Every player getting a warning and a rethrow has been happy about it. You might want to try that -- players willingly accept the rules when it gives them another chance ...

Good advice! "Bad news, you foot faulted. Good news, you get to rethrow that terrible shot. Next time is a penalty tho."

 

[DiscLoser1]

You're contradicting yourself. If you follow all the rules, then you should be calling rules infractions when you see them. If you're not, you're not following all the rules. (801.01 B. Players are expected to call a violation when one has clearly occurred. Calls must be made promptly.)

I call violations when I see them. I've called foot faults, 30 seconds, 3-minutes on a lost disc, misplays, courtesy, pretty much everything in the book at one time or another, both when I was an am and now as a pro. As a TD, I've assessed dozens of scoring error penalties (including four just this past weekend) and even DQ'd a couple players.

I've also countless times taken the "unofficial warning" route when players unknowingly commit or are about to commit a violation. That's actually my preference in a lot of cases, but at some point, particularly playing Pro Open (but it should apply to pretty much any division in a sanctioned event), you have to start with the assumption that the player is aware of the rules and a friendly warning isn't enough nor necessary. To me there's a difference between being blissfully unaware that you are violating a rule and being aware of the rule but not caring/trying enough to be in compliance.

I'm aware of 801.01B, thanks, and simply meant that I don't start playing casual just because the other players insist that rules are for nerds.

 

[DiscLoser1]

Is this an option? Can you just declare, "I'm only playing for fun" then the rules no longer apply to you?

The "I'm only playing for fun" BS is one of a few reasons why I'm on the fence as to whether or not I'm even going to re-up my membership to PDGA next year. That and the incident during AM Worlds where someone pencilwhipped a scorecard, but to the best of my knowledge is still eligible to play in sanctioned tournaments.

If you pay $50 to be apart of a sanctioning organization, then:
A) you should know the rules
B) you should adhere to the rules
C) you should call infractions of the rules.

Call me a rules Nazi, it wouldn't be the first time. If the body that is supposed to be over all doesn't enforce its' own rules, then WTF?

I'm out.

No, it's my job to enforce the rules, not the governing body, and it's every player's job to know the rules. The TD and his maybe 1 or 2 assistants aren't following 18 cards per round to call rules, and the PDGA isn't sending out rules officials to B or C Tier events. Even at NTs they are there to observe and only call when absolutely obvious. I think TD's should mention basic rules of play when going over OB and whatnot at the player's meetings, but hey, I'm not a TD.

This year was my first playing sanctioned tourneys, and I guess I was shocked into silence by the sheer number of rules transgressions. For me, part of learning the game was learning the rules, and I'll mark my lie even when playing solo, cuz that's how the game is suposed to be played.

As I said, if I can play up to Advance, I'll give that a shot and see how it goes, or maybe give up on the tourneys - I definitely don't need any more plastic.

I was just curious how widespread the ignorance of rules or intentional casual play was in sanctioned events.

 

[JC17393]

No, it's my job to enforce the rules, not the governing body, and it's every player's job to know the rules. The TD and his maybe 1 or 2 assistants aren't following 18 cards per round to call rules, and the PDGA isn't sending out rules officials to B or C Tier events. Even at NTs they are there to observe and only call when absolutely obvious. I think TD's should mention basic rules of play when going over OB and whatnot at the player's meetings, but hey, I'm not a TD.

This year was my first playing sanctioned tourneys, and I guess I was shocked into silence by the sheer number of rules transgressions. For me, part of learning the game was learning the rules, and I'll mark my lie even when playing solo, cuz that's how the game is suposed to be played.

As I said, if I can play up to Advance, I'll give that a shot and see how it goes, or maybe give up on the tourneys - I definitely don't need any more plastic.

I was just curious how widespread the ignorance of rules or intentional casual play was in sanctioned events.

Part of the reason there is widespread ignorance of rules and/or intentional casual play at sanctioned events is because a lot of players are like you. Willing to play by the rules yourself but not willing to call others when they are in violation. If you don't feel you're in danger of being penalized for foot faulting or making practice throws or not marking your lie properly, what's the incentive to do any of those things by the book?

Don't be shocked into silence, SPEAK UP. Call violations when you see them. Be the change you want to see in the game. If the culture changed to one in which 100% of the rules were adhered to (and that includes calling out violations as proscribed by the rules), there'd be a lot less violations to call since everyone would be a lot more vigilant about complying.

 

[The Shide]

No, it's my job to enforce the rules, not the governing body, and it's every player's job to know the rules. The TD and his maybe 1 or 2 assistants aren't following 18 cards per round to call rules, and the PDGA isn't sending out rules officials to B or C Tier events. Even at NTs they are there to observe and only call when absolutely obvious. I think TD's should mention basic rules of play when going over OB and whatnot at the player's meetings, but hey, I'm not a TD.

My point about the body enforcing rules was pertaining to the pencilwhipper still playing in sanctioned events while the body, the PDGA, turns a blind eye to it.

You are correct in saying we, hands & feet of the body, so to speak, are responsible for calling infractions during rounds.

Sorry for so many anatomy references.

 

[BogeyNoMore]

Most of what I call are stance violations/foot faults... more warnings to less experienced players than anything. Most of the time, it's players who are uninformed or misinformed (rather than genuinely trying to gain a competitive advantage), and are thankful someone is setting them straight. But even if they seem to be trying to skirt the rules intentionally, I've found that if you nip it in the bud early, it usually doesn't rear it's head again.

 

[Jay Dub]

I have never had a list of rules I'm wanting to call anyone one. If I see someone breaking the rules I try to explain it to them first (which works most times) but if they keep doing the same wrong thing then I call them on it.

In all my PDGA tournaments I only remember being part of one rules call and all I did was 2nd the call someone else made.

 

[tampora]

My point about the body enforcing rules was pertaining to the pencilwhipper still playing in sanctioned events while the body, the PDGA, turns a blind eye to it.

You are correct in saying we, hands & feet of the body, so to speak, are responsible for calling infractions during rounds.

I'd like to give this poster a hand; his/her argument is right on the nose. It is up to us to shoulder the burden of calling the rules. The integrity of the sport may waist away if we do not.

 

[CreemCheese]

I'm a life long rec player, as such I've played with a lot of beginners. I can't think of any time I've enforced a rule, but have made many suggestions or let the player know the proper rule. For me it's more about keeping someone interested in the sport than making them think everyone's a rules Nazi and taking the fun out of organized play.

 

[JC17393]

I'm a life long rec player, as such I've played with a lot of beginners. I can't think of any time I've enforced a rule, but have made many suggestions or let the player know the proper rule. For me it's more about keeping someone interested in the sport than making them think everyone's a rules Nazi and taking the fun out of organized play.

I think you're dead on when it comes to newer players. Education first. Don't alienate them by being an ******* (though I think there are plenty of ways to play by and enforce rules, including calling violations, without being an ******* about it).

The problem is and has always been that the attitude in your last sentence has always continued up the chain beyond just dealing with new players. At some point, the concept of playing and enforcing the rules properly and having fun have to stop being viewed as mutually exclusive ideas. At some point, the guy making a proper call on a foot fault or some other violation has to not be looked at as the worst person in the world.

 

[CreemCheese]

I probably should have clarified, in rounds with people who have been playing a while, usually these are leagues, I'll call things.
I was more answering to the question of tournaments, where since I've been around much longer I usually get carded with newer players.
Last tournament for example, all my card mates through both rounds totaled to less than a year experience, and 2 tournaments.

 

[blazerico]

there is no need to use a mini in most cases since your thrown disc marks the lie

 

[Meho20]

Why do people still think you have to flip your disc or use a mini when you clearly land inbounds and no need to mark the lie? Straight from the rule book:
The position of a thrown disc on the in-bounds playing surface marks its lie.
Alternatively, a mini marker disc may be used to mark the lie by placing it on the playing surface, touching the front of the thrown disc on the line of play.
A player is required to mark the lie with a mini marker disc in the following situations:
Marking an approximate lie;
Marking a disc above or below the playing surface (see 802.02.C);
Relocating the lie within one meter of an out-of-bounds area (see 802.03.D);
Taking relief (see 803.01).

Nowhere does it say to flip a disc to mark your lie. Either play the disc from where it landed and establishes the lie or mark with a mini.

 

[JC17393]

Why do people still think you have to flip your disc or use a mini when you clearly land inbounds and no need to mark the lie? Straight from the rule book:
The position of a thrown disc on the in-bounds playing surface marks its lie.
Alternatively, a mini marker disc may be used to mark the lie by placing it on the playing surface, touching the front of the thrown disc on the line of play.
A player is required to mark the lie with a mini marker disc in the following situations:
Marking an approximate lie;
Marking a disc above or below the playing surface (see 802.02.C);
Relocating the lie within one meter of an out-of-bounds area (see 802.03.D);
Taking relief (see 803.01).

Nowhere does it say to flip a disc to mark your lie. Either play the disc from where it landed and establishes the lie or mark with a mini.

It's like a lot of other misunderstood or misused rules...they were taught that way. It stems from when marking with a mini was required on every shot, and if a player didn't have a mini, they improvised. Doesn't help that one of the leading target/course equipment manufacturers sells a "rules" sign for courses that lists turning the disc over as an option to mark one's lie.

 

[scarpfish]

there is no need to use a mini in most cases since your thrown disc marks the lie

Yeah, but you're putting yourself 8 or 9 inches backwards by not using one, and in putting situations that can sometimes be the difference between one sticking and one spitting out or clunking off the facemask.

That, and some people don't like to risk warping their discs by stepping on them.

 

[araytx]

DL:

Maybe I should give you a scenario and how I handle it, and you'll see that there is a way (at least in my mind) to be sure everyone plays by the rules to the best of your ability without being a jerk about it.

I learned preventive officiating from my days as a football referee. After play when it was close we might say, "hey #62, your hands are starting to creep outside the defenses body when you're blocking. If that happens at the point of attack it's gonna be a holding penalty." Or, tell the DB, "#42, remember you can't use your hands to impede the receiver more that 10 yards out if your not playing the ball. Luckily that wasn't a pass play, but be sure not to on a pass or they'll get an automatic first down." So then if a few plays later #62 got his hands outside the body, we'd call holding; if #42 is still chucking the receive way downfield on pass, he'd gonna get an illegal use of hands.

Seam basic concept. I don't let someone continually blatantly break rules. But there are players in tournaments, even some who've been playing a long while, that might not know the rule or might not realize they are breaking one or coming close to breaking one. I know I sometimes break a rule, but unintentionally. Telling someone privately between holes, "hey man whenever you take a long run up you seem to plant your foot past your marker and way right, so be careful to put it down right within the 11+ inches behind the marker," is preventive officiating. Now if he still does it, I've tried to let him know not to -- I'll even show him what I'm talking about if he asks. I appreciate it if other players tell me the same.

And similarly with other violations that can be handled "preventively."

 

[Jimb]

Haven't had to call any with my limited tourney experience.

However, I would consider calling any rule violation as long as it was very clear to me.

 

[robdeforge]

I've never called any violations in my three tournaments. I did have a foot fault called on me in my first ever tournament, by somebody not in my division, because I misunderstood the rule. It is interesting to point out, however, that the people who called didn't make me re-putt - so they called the rule but didn't properly assess the penalty.

I personally think it's really ****ty to expect everyone to call every violation they ever see, even if is the "right" thing to do. Because disc golf is such a mental game, and I have a mind that won't shut up, calling a violation isn't so simple as just call it and move on. It would get into my head, for a few different reasons, and affect my ability to play my best. Screw that!

Calling time violations seems like the hardest thing for to call. It would take a large amount of concentration away from my game (rather than thinking about my next shot, I'm watching a stopwatch) and it could be somewhat difficult to "prove" in certain circumstances.

 

[hellbound]

Was burned this last weekend on a guy that was foot faulting. Norm is I don't call the first one just a friendly reminder. Talking with one of the other card guys that plays with him. After the second one and his hot play we called him on it. First he had ever herd of that rule of stance. thought he was going to cry.

 

[JC17393]

Was burned this last weekend on a guy that was foot faulting. Norm is I don't call the first one just a friendly reminder. Talking with one of the other card guys that plays with him. After the second one and his hot play we called him on it. First he had ever herd of that rule of stance. thought he was going to cry.

Wonder how many tournaments he had played and how many foot faults he had committed in those tournaments because no one had called him on it before? That's part of the trouble with folks not saying anything (no friendly reminders, no official warnings/calls, nothing) when they see violations...people don't learn. In the long run, that guy's better off for having been called on it because now he can address and fix it.

I played a casual round this morning with a couple guys. Both relatively new, just finishing their first year of competing seriously in tournaments. Noticed on the first hole that one of them stepped off the front of the box on his tee shot. It was one of those instances where he planted at the very edge of the pad and pivoted on his heel so that most of his foot was in the dirt at or just after release. Close call...didn't say anything as it was just a fun game and all. Two holes later, he did it again. Then a third time. On the fourth time he did it, it wasn't even close as his entire foot was completely off the front of the tee even before he pivoted. So I asked him if he knew he was faulting when he did that. He didn't know he was even doing it at all, let alone against the rules. No one had ever said anything about it before and the other guy with us, who plays with him more often, confirmed he's seen him do it a few times a round but never said anything.

He'd been playing MA2 all year and is planning to make the jump to MA1 for next year. He was glad I pointed it out and is going to work on correcting it so he doesn't get called in tournaments in the future. I'm equally surprised and not surprised that he's played 6-7 tournaments already this year and he was never called on it, friendly warning or otherwise. It's the culture of the game, unfortunately.