Why throw the big hyzer?

[ihatepickles]

Well, there's one anecdote I'll add.

When I watch the better rated played bomb the pin, I don't really see their placement end up any better than mine. Now, there's a big skill gap between the local hot shots and top pros, but a lot of what drove me to post this question boils down to me not really seeing a better result come from the big hyzer vs my clumsy hyzer flip.

A few hundred throws isn't really a trend, but I'm not sure I completely buy in that a big hyzer is the highest percentage shot. The big arms can drive the distance 100% of the time with 90% placement. I'm driving the distance 90% of the time with 90% placement.

It's interesting to read everyone's take on this. These are the kinds of situations where I like to throw 3-4 discs a few times a week and see how the results vary. Glad I have days off in the middle of the week when the course isn't busy.

 

[Toro71]

Watch the Memorial. It hyzer city out there. All those Open holes can't be challenging.

FTFY.

LOL, I'm kind of kidding, I know there's some challenge on that course. My point actually is, I don't naturally gravitate to a hyzer-bomb mentality, personally, because I play on courses designed to seldom if ever offer that line to a righty.

So, even when I am faced with a wide open approach or tee shot, I actually am not as comfortable hyzer bombing.

 

[46YearOldSlinger]

I find hyzers so much easier to range and predict because I can put the disc on an arc all the way to the ground. That said on most drives where I can't reach the pin I prefer to throw something understable as I get way more distance on a hyzer flip or S curve. But if I can reach it and the right side is open I'll take the hyzer line. I use this theory even more for approaches since the word "approach" generally means you can reach the pin. I use a tangent for 90% of my approaches and I can go straight at the pin, anny it, or hyzer it with this one disc. I used to go straight at the pin and can do that fairly well but it's so much easier to judge the distance with a mild hyzer with an arc ending right under the pin (or slightly right of the pin to allow for a bit of slide/skip depending on terrain). If I go straight at the pin it's to easy to blow by too far and having a difficult come back put. I know your question is more about drives but find it worth noting that this logic applies for shorter shots as well.

 

[46YearOldSlinger]

Oh, and check out the graph here: http://heavydisc.blogspot.com/2014/01/shot-selection-many-ways-skin-cat.html

 

[Smigles]

A few hundred throws isn't really a trend, but I'm not sure I completely buy in that a big hyzer is the highest percentage shot.

The disc wants to hyzer out. It's the natural thing for it to do, cause of physics etc.

A hyzer is what the disc wants to do and what it does most consistently. With a hyzer flip you have variables. It can flip too much, it can flip over, it can not flip enugh. It can come down left, right or straight. The hyzer only knows one direction.

Hyzer is just more dependable, controlable and it's the higher percentage shot. It's simple physics.

 

[Smigles]

Oh, and check out the graph here: http://heavydisc.blogspot.com/2014/01/shot-selection-many-ways-skin-cat.html

Very strange article.

He starts off with saying that having choices is a bad thing. And then posts a graph of flight paths that resemble more a bumerang than a disc. Do you see how the discs hyzer out backwards in the graph? Yeah, I am not buying that...

 

[46YearOldSlinger]

The ones at the top are straight hyzer and more closely placed to each other. The ones at the bottom are more "S" curves that happen when you throw with anny and have it fade back. The discs fade out left accurately in the graph assuming RHBH. Makes sense to me.

 

[Jay Dub]

Here's a strategy question.

If you're playing an open hole in no wind, why throw a big hyzer vs a low control shot?

I see this play out at my local course all the time. Being a new player on a 350' hole, I throw my Saint on a low hyzer flip line. The higher rated players bomb an overstable disc on a spike hyzer line. Why are they throwing the big hyzer?

For me, I don't have a big enough arm to carry all the extra distance that a big hyzer would require. I throw the low control because that's my only throw I have to park the basket. It got me thinking though: if I had a bigger arm, why would I choose a big hyzer vs a control shot?

That's pretty irrelevant to the point of this thread though, since the top guys who are really good at throwing shorter shots still choose the hyzer line most of the time when it's available. No matter how good you are at straight shots, the hyzer has less risk, more distance control and is less affected by (almost) any wind condition.

How many top guys are from Louisville, KY? he asked why the local players do that not the top players. Which makes your post irrelevant to the point of this thread.

 

[heartman]

Hasn't McBeth said in the past that he prefers running at pins more than throwing hyzers?

I want to say he enjoys the challenge of throwing a straighter shot, compared to just hyzering it up there.

... don't quote me on that, and not sure where I heard that (maybe a SpinTV vid or McBeth diaries)

 

[tbird888]

I want to say he enjoys the challenge of throwing a straighter shot, compared to just hyzering it up there.

... don't quote me on that, and not sure where I heard that (maybe a SpinTV vid or McBeth diaries)

I remember hearing the same. When you're that good, I guess you have to give your competition a chance. :shrug:

 

[New013]

Well, there's one anecdote I'll add.

When I watch the better rated played bomb the pin, I don't really see their placement end up any better than mine. Now, there's a big skill gap between the local hot shots and top pros, but a lot of what drove me to post this question boils down to me not really seeing a better result come from the big hyzer vs my clumsy hyzer flip.

A few hundred throws isn't really a trend, but I'm not sure I completely buy in that a big hyzer is the highest percentage shot. The big arms can drive the distance 100% of the time with 90% placement. I'm driving the distance 90% of the time with 90% placement.QUOTE]

so you're saying 90% of the time you have good placement (inside the cirlce i'm guessing) and you think there's any room for improvement there? if you're hyzerflipping a driver 350' and getting that level of placement what room for better results are there? should the people throwing hyzers be acing the damn thing 90% of the time?

another thing a lot of players don't realize is that 350' at a certain level isnt that far. i can throw a putter 350 and in some situations on more open holes i'll throw a mid on a slight hyzer for that distance.

let's talk about 400' open shots, do you still think trying to hyzerflip something 400' is just as accurate as throwing a big hyzer or even throwing a basic fade shot?

 

[heartman]

I remember hearing the same. When you're that good, I guess you have to give your competition a chance. :shrug:

I said don't quote me ... and you did dammit

 

[ihatepickles]

so you're saying 90% of the time you have good placement (inside the cirlce i'm guessing) and you think there's any room for improvement there? if you're hyzerflipping a driver 350' and getting that level of placement what room for better results are there? should the people throwing hyzers be acing the damn thing 90% of the time?

Sure, I'm saying that if I can hit the distance, then 90% of the time I'm in the circle.

The bigger arms I play rounds with hit that distance every time, and their placement is in the circle 90% of time.

Regardless, you're using a straw man argument. I'm not implying there's no room to improve anyone's game or saying that I feel they should ace 90% of time. I'd love to have my placement closer to 100% inside the circle.

I know I'm not throwing an equal game as the higher level players. I'm just saying that when I'm able to hit the distance, my control is just as good as those with an arm big enough to throw the spike hyzer the same distance.

I assume others that have noticed the same, after all as you say 350' isn't that hard to hit.

let's talk about 400' open shots, do you still think trying to hyzerflip something 400' is just as accurate as throwing a big hyzer or even throwing a basic fade shot?

I have no idea, I can't hit 400'.

 

[tbird888]

I said don't quote me ... and you did dammit

:hfive:

 

[Smigles]

The discs fade out left accurately in the graph assuming RHBH. Makes sense to me.

Discs always travel forwards.

The graphs on the left side clearly curl backwards towards the end, which discs never do.

 

[Stankyjahnke]

Open hole under 300' I'm gonna throw my buzzz flip it on an hyzer flip and let if cruise straight. Farther than that I usually throw hyzers with something overstable or the TL straight down the pipe. The reason I throw hyzers is because I feel like I have better form and more power. It might all be mental but I love just laying a disc out there and letting it come back.

 

[ohtobediscing]

Discs always travel forwards.

The graphs on the left side clearly curl backwards towards the end, which discs never do.

I hope you're just being the obstinate, disingenuous Devil's advocate, because discs DO travel backwards under a number of cercumstances. Hitting trees/obstacles, wind, spinning out on the ground, grip lock over-elevation, T.Hizzle's drives. I know a guy who throws so hard and fast his discs travel backwards in TIME. :|

 

[Smigles]

I hope you're just being the obstinate, disingenuous Devil's advocate, because discs DO travel backwards under a number of cercumstances. Hitting trees/obstacles, wind, spinning out on the ground, grip lock over-elevation, T.Hizzle's drives. I know a guy who throws so hard and fast his discs travel backwards in TIME. :|

Yeah all of this is totally relevant for graphs in a flight diagram...

 

[1978]

I hope you're just being the obstinate, disingenuous Devil's advocate, because discs DO travel backwards under a number of cercumstances. Hitting trees/obstacles, wind, spinning out on the ground, grip lock over-elevation, T.Hizzle's drives. I know a guy who throws so hard and fast his discs travel backwards in TIME. :|

If a disc is spinning it seems to me that eventually it could make a full circle. Difficult to do though because you need air resistance to make a disc glide but also resistance for it to catch and rotate in the direction of the spin...

 

[Kodachrome]

So you are essentially claiming that you are as accurate at max distance as you are sub-max?

Also keep in mind that there are more variables than just your throw. Hyzer is one way of eliminating variables. Therefore it is more consistent even if you see the same results. Your throw is more prone to interference. If it it works for you, it works. It is not as inherently accurate or consistent though.