Zephyr Cove needs help!!!!!!

[ljerome]

Just to clear the air and actually speak your piece, then: Is there a main reason you decided to go around the well-established course designers and caretakers other than the fact that they didn't like your ideas?

This seems like a valid question because when you read through the material it just sounds like one guy (Mike) decided he wanted to do more things with the course than what the original course designers (Craig / Paul) wanted to do so he went off alone.

Oh, and I find it a little humorous to see the word "Safety" thrown out there. Yes I know it is always important but sometimes, in situations like these, the guy who brings that word up is trying to find a way to get his way. Like the other two are not concerned with safety? I doubt it.

opcorn:

 

[tahoe]

please read more carefully, its all there.

 

[onemilemore]

This seems like a valid question because when you read through the material it just sounds like one guy (Mike) decided he wanted to do more things with the course than what the original course designers (Craig / Paul) wanted to do so he went off alone.

This is certainly what it seems like. I am still dismayed, though, that the locals who tend the course did not have a strong enough foundation with the local authorities to make this not happen. Seems odd.

please read more carefully, its all there.

I did read. It says one guy kicked another guy off the team after expressing concerns. Then the guy who got kicked off the team made his own proposal. Am I missing something there? It still seems like someone didn't get his way, so instead of taking it up with the teacher he went straight to the principal.

Regardless of who is right or wrong, it's a shame to see something like this going down in public. My hope is that people can put their egos aside and do what is best for the thousands of other people who use the course.

 

[tahoe]

sorry if I offended you if you did read it carefully, I tried to make it clear in my write-up but perhaps I may have been lacking. The 'original designer' would not listen to concerns, so our only voice was to go to the owners of the land, County.
Hope this clears things up.

 

[tahoe]

This seems like a valid question because when you read through the material it just sounds like one guy (Mike) decided he wanted to do more things with the course than what the original course designers (Craig / Paul) wanted to do so he went off alone.

Oh, and I find it a little humorous to see the word "Safety" thrown out there. Yes I know it is always important but sometimes, in situations like these, the guy who brings that word up is trying to find a way to get his way. Like the other two are not concerned with safety? I doubt it.

opcorn:

1. Please don't mention names on this site.
2. FACT VERIFICATION.... the second name you mention above, he was not an original designer

 

[onemilemore]

sorry if I offended you if you did read it carefully, I tried to make it clear in my write-up but perhaps I may have been lacking. The 'original designer' would not listen to concerns, so our only voice was to go to the owners of the land, County.
Hope this clears things up.

Not offended at all. What were the safety issues? I feel like that wasn't made clear in your proposal. I know the course designer has a fine reputation up there, so I am just curious what your team took issue with and why he would bristle at it.

1. Please don't mention names on this site.
2. FACT VERIFICATION.... the second name you mention above, he was not an original designer

Eh, why worry about mentioning names when they are in the link you provided? :shrug:

Also, just some friendly advice: It is a lot easier to take someone seriously on an issue like this when they use proper grammar and punctuation. Otherwise, it just comes off as rushed and defensive.

I think people - even those outside the Tahoe area - care about this issue, and would like clear information without starting a battle. At the same time, you are trying to change a well-established, popular course created by a renowned designer. Fair or not, in the court of public opinion your team has the burden of proof.

 

[topdog]

Y change a great course if it is broke.

 

[topdog]

Why change a course if it isnt broke.

 

[ru4por]

I wanted everything to be smoothed out locally through an open forum and a democratic process, protecting names and reputations. I didn't want to fuel the fire but it seems to have already reached the forest canopy. It has come to this unfortunately as the campaign against me and my group continues unabated.

I contacted "elevated plastic" privately to ask that he remove this misinformation. He replied privately to say he just "heard" these things and they are not fact to him, yet went on to post the link to the petition on change.org. People across the country are signing a petition about a local issue on which they are receiving one-sided libelous information. I understand how highly valued the Zephyr Course is to locals and people all over the world. I have assisted many visitors in finding their way and helping them enjoy the experience of the course and my home, Tahoe.

Please instill trust in the local activists who have endorsement of the County and don't exacerbate the issue by fighting us, Douglas County Disc Golf & Interpretive Trails. The door is wide open for feedback and concerns about Zephyr's future. If you'd like a full recounting of events visit this page:

https://sites.google.com/site/zephyrcovedgc/home

Well, there is certainly some personal animosity involved here. But, I don't believe anyone here really care about that. I don't use facebook, but the only campaigns I see here is yours. I don't see any fires, except the ones you are lighting. I don't hear two voices, I hear one. I don't really care who is wrong or right. I too only hope that egos are set aside for the good of this course and our game. Good luck to your pursuit....whatever it is.

 

[Emoney]

Geeze what a mess. So guy A,B, and C set out to slightly alter original layout and add more holes. Guy "C" has an ego trip and decides his way is the right way. Guy A and B say too bad so sad to guy "C". So guy "C" decides the only way he can beat guys A and B is to go to the County officials with his planned alterations and get a legal stamp of approval . Guy "C" then stands on his high and mighty soapbox and "mockingly" asks everyone to join his proposal (All while knowing they have no choice because he has full legal power). Guy "C" yells , MERICA! , as he moves baskets to HIS approved locations.

Seems like Ego was a major factor in this on both sides. This could have easily stayed within the disc golf community. Not everyone will be happy with either design but getting city officials involved in a pizzing contest IS NEVER EVER A GOOD THING. Now instead of bringing the community together , you 3 have divided it. Congrats

 

[DavidSauls]

.....getting city officials involved in a pizzing contest IS NEVER EVER A GOOD THING.

If they're like parks departments and city officials I've known, they hate being thrown into a turf war. In the future, they may focus their attention and energies where the boat rocks less, rather than disc golf. Even if one side of this spat is right, "a plague on both your houses" may be their attitude.

 

[Aim For The Chains]

1. Please don't mention names on this site.
2. FACT VERIFICATION.... the second name you mention above, he was not an original designer

Lol. Course designers names are generally even on the course pages here. Do the designers have insurance?

You seems like a REALLY fun person.:gross:

 

[discRabbit]

Why change a course if it isnt broke.

I don't want "not broken" courses. I want great courses :thmbup:

If you share this reasoning, it follows that you might change a course (even when it isn't broke) to make it better and/or great.

 

[coupe]

I don't want "not broken" courses. I want great courses :thmbup:

If you share this reasoning, it follows that you might change a course (even when it isn't broke) to make it better and/or great.

"Great" in whose opinion? There's a butt ton of good to very good courses that have been ruined by course designer wannabes who think the fact that they've been playing (x) years qualifies them to design a course.

I'll take an existing "not broken" 4.26 rated course over an ego-driven "improvement" by someone who provides no evidence that he has ANY experience designing disc golf courses. :thmbdown:

 

[discRabbit]

whoa there buddy, I'm not saying that all courses should (or even can) be improved. This isn't a comment about the tahoe course either.

I'm simply stating a reason why "you might change a course" (emphasis added)


P.S. - Zephyr Cove is in my favorites. I do not think Zephyr Cove is broken. That said, it is probably possible to further improve the course.

Will the course improve under this proposal? I like pretty much everyone here who isn't ranting and raving, have no effing clue if the current proposal is better or worse

 

[jeffmonty]

One thing i've learned about course design is that no matter what you do, some people are not going to be happy.

 

[discRabbit]

One thing i've learned about course design is that no matter what you do, some people are not going to be happy.

TRUTH! Especially not at the outset of any changes.

 

[B3NDER]

Why would one douchey person's word be greater than that of the "masses?"

Oh yeah, because the world is ****ed. Hope it all works out for the 'right' party in the end.

What?!?! No no no no no no!!! That is easily the coolest, most unique, and challenging courses out there... Not to mention the most epic scenery and views of any course in existence. Why change that course? There's no need... Just build another one, right?

Also, having only played 43 courses, I'm not sure you can make such a bold statement.

 

[Gidget]

Interesting post. The man behind this petition wants you to believe he isn't planing on making changes (which he most definitely is), he's just upset the county chose a different proposal. Do some research before u sign!

 

[Gidget]

The proposal chosen by Douglas County wasn't the doing of one individual either. It was developedone by a group of players and other community members