300’ barrier

[Jet57]

Evening,

Not posting as often, but still putting in consistent work. Trying to save myself a few red/yellow lines before putting up clips

Copying two videos. The past 60 days clips represents what my form is/was for the past few months. The Right Direction clip is after tweaking a few things and focusing on different aspects of my throw. Felt much less "whippy" than how it' normally feels.

I'm still not there...but for what it's worth, this has by far been my most enjoyable summer throwing. 350' is my max, but with most courses I play in that distance range I keep up with just about anyone these days. So appreciative of everyone's help.

 

[slowplastic]

In the newer/right direction video your backswing starts a bit later or farther forward which I like...but you still push the arm back to the top of the backswing in the last instant and then start moving the arm forward as the front foot is coming down. Also your right shoulder is kind of staying in place in space over the plant leg rather than turning both shoulders around the spine.

Overall though I think the next step is the whole "swing plane is not flat" aspect but I want to hear from SW that that is the case before going down that rabbit hole. But, that has been helping me immensely and didn't mess up my throw or aim much...now I am hitting gaps as consistent as any time and able to throw annies better than ever.

 

[sidewinder22]

Some nice rear foot eversion happening there although it's late because your left arm/hand action is all screwy. Your left arm is all twisted so your palm is facing away from you and your elbow is flying out away from you. Start with the left arm lagging straight behind you away from the body and bring your left elbow forward into the body leading the hand into the body and leading the front elbow bending. Note how McBeth's palm is facing toward his body so the elbow is in tight to the body and all his weight is bracing into the front leg.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mpp7ZFLHK90&t=9m42s

 

[slowplastic]

So you're throwing a flat release in that video clip, and at every point from top of backswing to during follow through your arm is parallel to the ground on this "flat" line. However your shoulders have a tilt to them during the swing...and that means your arm is not following the tilt of the shoulders. If you look at the still frame of you and McBeth above, it looks like he would throw straight into the ground if he continued on that same plane...but he clearly doesn't. His arm is on the same plane as the shoulders, so during the shot as the right shoulder moves upward the arm will actually finish higher around the body. Your forearm is parallel to the ground at this point but not moving with the shoulders.

The hardest part to wrap my head around for this is that you don't keep the disc on that perfect plane with your release angle during the entire swing...it happens kind of instantaneously through the hit point. But it will happen and it's how the arm extends so it's natural and it won't throw off consistency. I had to relate it to swinging a golf club...the face of the golf club isn't always facing the ball perfectly as I swing down, since I let my wrists turn back during the backswing naturally and trust that I'll get back to the ball in my starting position. I don't have to twist the club or anything, and it gets back there even though I let it turn away.

The simplest way I can explain how it feels, is do a putting motion with how the arm finishes upward. Then do that harder letting the arm follow through up and around you. Turn that into more of a swing, with the arm allowed to finish up and away. If you just concentrate on the release angle through the hit point and let your arm swing smoothly through this arc then it's kind of freeing during the swing.

 

[Jet57]

Sick baby / Nap time

Trying to undue this flat plane muscle memory, not easy. Been swinging a baseball bat around, these past couple days, I've been feeling much more leverage after incorporating some of the baseball swing "feels".

Maybe a dumb question...

Rear foot eversion...is a byproduct of doing what well? Would that be shifting/transferring weight correctly (albeit late for me)? I ask because my lower back is a bit sore today. I'm wondering if it is because although I'm getting good foot eversion, I'm still consistently bracing my right shoulder instead of my spine, therefore putting a bit of torque on my back?

Two clips - OLD and a hammer toss. Tried to focus on swing plane and getting my spine stacked instead of my shoulder.

 

[slowplastic]

Yeah swing plane is improved and right direction I think.

When I feel my lower back it's from pushing late off the rear foot...that's what allows me to send torque through my body in a bad way. If you watch your rear foot in both of these recent videos...no good. Your heel is moving up and away from you the entire time, you are "spinning out" the rear foot instead of moving your weight toward the plant off the rear instep. Your toes stay down for a while too because of it, I bet this is what causes that lower back strain.

I think the rear foot eversion signifies you are moving your weight heel-first forward, and if I wait long enough to swing after transferring my weight I can feel like I can use that counterweight of the leg to help me pull against so I get a more active hit/launch.

Use the rear leg for counterweight, not for pushing rotation.

You can see especially in that disc throw that your spine is aligned to your rear femur, and your right shoulder is aligned and stuck over the plant leg during the entire throw.

With this swing plane, maybe feel that you can be more free to have torso tilt athletically over the toes like would be a typical hyzer plane, but you can still have the disc pulled back to flat or near flat through the hit point because of how your shoulders will rotate through. This will let you get forward over both the front foot and closer to the front of the teepad.

 

[slowplastic]

Also, pretend to be Eric Oakley. How forward he is during his hop, right shoulder and right side of torso smoothly and constantly moving targetward, leading the way. Very big tilt and seems to be a steep hyzer angle during his movement/backswing on the teepad, but by the time his hips clear him upward he's throwing a very normal mild-medium hyzer release and ends up standing pretty upright during follow through.

Basically try a very different feel to see how you could be so far forward and so angled yet have the momentum and counterweight pull you up and through the shot.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nuEFQkxqBSc

 

[sidewinder22]

The eversion is getting your weight off the back foot, but it's jamming harder into your front side than when you spin out the rear foot. The issue is that you still aren't setting up or ever getting on the front leg properly.

1. Setup - You are moving off your front leg before the backswing, so your pre-swing and backswing aren't setup on your front leg.

2. Point of Contact - Your elbow/hammer havn't starting releasing over the front foot to start driving the nail right over the foot. Your nail is like a foot in front of your foot, and your elbow is way too bent.

3. Release - Your hammer head has twisted over 90 degrees through point of contact to release so your nail is bent or smacked the nail with the side of the head.

 

[Jet57]

Same type stuff...different day. My same problems exist regardless if I am throwing a hammer or a disc, so staying with the hammer toss for a bit.

Tried to fix my swing plane, along with my wrist. After my last critique, I'm think I understood what SW has been saying about my wrist movement. I've definitely been turning/twisting my wrist, trying to emulate the position SW gets into. These throws I really was concentrating on swing plane and wrist.

My upper body looks terrible, but this is the byproduct of attempting a correct swing plane . As I am progressing through this, I'm a little lost as to why my upper body looks nothing like SW.

Only half way through lunch and I'm frustrated.

 

[slowplastic]

You're getting more forward/targetward here which is good. It looks to me like your chin/head are getting stuffed into the right shoulder though. It looks to me like your torso is rotating a bit soon and that could be why your head gets stuffed into the arm...the torso/head are rotating forward into the arm rather than the butt clearing back after plant to turn the torso to pull the arm. It looks like your torso is rotating too much around rather than getting to an anchored position to release the arm away/out.

With the left arm, your hand is in front of the thigh and the arm is in close, but maybe try getting your left elbow to your hip or in front of the hip by an inch or so. So that the arm is in front of the body to help anchor the shot. I still don't understand what a perfect off arm does since there are a few different versions of it, but I think your upper arm/elbow are behind your spine and hip and slowing you down and pulling away from you during the throw. Instead of being forward and then used as leverage as the blocking/swim move to release your right arm.

 

[SuperWookie]

Evening,

Not posting as often, but still putting in consistent work. Trying to save myself a few red/yellow lines before putting up clips

Copying two videos. The past 60 days clips represents what my form is/was for the past few months. The Right Direction clip is after tweaking a few things and focusing on different aspects of my throw. Felt much less "whippy" than how it' normally feels.

I'm still not there...but for what it's worth, this has by far been my most enjoyable summer throwing. 350' is my max, but with most courses I play in that distance range I keep up with just about anyone these days. So appreciative of everyone's help.

Hey there Jet! I've been following along with your thread for awhile now and have to say... from where you started to this latest video is SUPER IMPRESSIVE man! No offense (as we all struggle as beginners), but I thought you'd never really "get" there. The balance, the odd body movements that didn't look smooth. It just looked like it was never going to work. And yet I have seen you constantly on here, posting more video and practicing like a maniac and your form is SOOO much better and I'm jealous man! You aren't all the way there yet, but you are well on your way to having a GREAT throw man!!! Very impressed with your amazing dedication and progress even when things seemed down and like they'd never change. I'm a little earlier on in the process from you, and hopefully by the end of this year or so, I'll be cleaning up my form and see results like you are now! Congrats on all the hard work and progress, super impressed man! :hfive:

 

[Jet57]

With the left arm, your hand is in front of the thigh and the arm is in close, but maybe try getting your left elbow to your hip or in front of the hip by an inch or so. So that the arm is in front of the body to help anchor the shot. I still don't understand what a perfect off arm does since there are a few different versions of it, but I think your upper arm/elbow are behind your spine and hip and slowing you down and pulling away from you during the throw. Instead of being forward and then used as leverage as the blocking/swim move to release your right arm.

Good stuff SP, I'll adjust the off arm a bit.

Hey there Jet! I've been following along with your thread for awhile now and have to say... from where you started to this latest video is SUPER IMPRESSIVE man...Congrats on all the hard work and progress, super impressed man! :hfive:

Mannnnnn this was a really kind message to come back to the office to. Thank you, seriously. I had know idea the can of worms I was opening last year; needless to say, as the months went on, I slowly began to realize how challenging my goal of 500' was going to be.

Eventually I simply had to abandon any/all ego I once had, and learn to be okay with looking absolutely ridiculous. I don't know what percentage of people actually make it to the 500' goal after beginning a journey like this, but whatever the percent is, I suspect I'll be in the top 1/3 of longest time it takes to get there.

One more clip today; this GIF is the same hammer toss from earlier, just SBS with SW. There is a glaring difference between SW's transition move and mine. SW appears to actually raise up a bit on his rear leg, and then drop onto his lead leg. In contrast, although I move laterally, I slide/squish into my lead leg.



Thank you again SuperWookie for the positive message, and thank you to SP and SW for staying with me all these months.

 

[slowplastic]

The biggest thing I see in that side by side is that SW is using his hips to really anchor the shot. You can see how they almost stay in place and nearly rotate away...it's pulling his body and it looks like he hasn't done a thing with his arm yet. It makes me feel/visualize how my own FH feels, like my butt gets my body into a place where I have leverage to add my arm through the hit to keep pulling on the disc. In comparison you have a bit more lateral forward movement and rotation turning forward...you likely are turning faster leading into the power pocket but won't have as much leverage through the arm extension.

Both of you move laterally toward the plant though, I'm just meaning that after SW has his weight settled his hips are used as leverage.

 

[sidewinder22]

There is a glaring difference between SW's transition move and mine. SW appears to actually raise up a bit on his rear leg, and then drop onto his lead leg. In contrast, although I move laterally, I slide/squish into my lead leg.

Yep, you need to rise/extend legs/get taller in the backswing - upright on rear leg, to swivel your butt targetward and drop in transition upright onto front leg and mirror backswing forward to tall upright finish on front leg.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2D4_tDZjX1w&t=2m50s

 

[Jet57]

Yo. Feel like the majority of my current issues can be summarized in this one still frame. The SBS is the first frame after the hammer leaves the hand of SW and me.
I'm ridiculously over my toes, my heel is pointing away from the target, and 90% of my butt can be seen :wall:

I am feeling better about my swing plane/pendulum, but until I correct my shift/hips/stack...it will continue to look/feel off.

 

[slowplastic]

I added the orange line. I think this shows how SW has his spine centered so his shoulders can trade places, whereas you have your right shoulder blocked to the right foot so it is the axis and stays put.

I'm trying to be conscious of this for myself right now too, I don't "block" the shoulder as bad as you do anymore...I used to for sure. But I don't have my body turning more centered, which will give the shoulder a longer path and sling the arm from my core instead of having the arm just open from the shoulder, in feel anyways.

 

[DiscFifty]

I think you should start a new thread: "The quest for 400" or something similar, because the title of this thread is about 50ft or so behind you now. Congrats! I wish my form looked as good as yours on video.

 

[HyzerUniBomber]

I'm interested with SPlastic & Swinder (the S bro's) thoughts on using the pre-swing (pre-backswing) to open the shoulders forward, which seems to really help the timing of the "elephant walk". It seems like it adds a physical cue.

I use one now with my x-step and it seems to reinforce just the right amount of lag and takes out any interest in a sloshing forward motion.

 

[sidewinder22]

I'm interested with SPlastic & Swinder (the S bro's) thoughts on using the pre-swing (pre-backswing) to open the shoulders forward, which seems to really help the timing of the "elephant walk". It seems like it adds a physical cue.

I use one now with my x-step and it seems to reinforce just the right amount of lag and takes out any interest in a sloshing forward motion.

You mean pre-swing to the hit and work back?

 

[sidewinder22]

RandyC and I were talking about how people try to get or to maintain these imaginary positions and planes that don't exist and really sabotages progress. I always see people trying to start at the static right pec position and it doesn't exist in the dynamic swing. If you watch my "standstill" throws I'm shifting back and forth and swinging my arm disc constantly to settle everything dynamically to where I want to toss the weight of the swing.