300’ barrier

[slowplastic]

It looks tad better, stop tucking your rear arm atleast for now. That makes you look bit too robotic. Just focus on your new found swing path and swing freely. I can throw 500+ and I have never ever given two cents about my rear arm.

If you've felt where it goes then you don't have to think about it...if not then it's a mystery.

The battering ram thing seems to have helped me feel how to let the rear arm swing through freely rather than trying to get it to the brace but with my body between it and the brace, or other weird things.

 

[sidewinder22]

Yeah, that's looking better, I like the rear arm there like Marc Jarvis, you can actually leverage yourself more forward with the rear hand pushing off the rear thigh. You actually need to shift diagonally inward off the rear foot into the front foot relative to the diagonal stance. You are going straight into it/over top. Slide your front foot and weight over to the left more just before you plant.

Watch how much more diagonal his feet and weight move.

 

[Jet57]

Yeah, that's looking better, I like the rear arm there like Marc Jarvis, you can actually leverage yourself more forward with the rear hand pushing off the rear thigh. You actually need to shift diagonally inward off the rear foot into the front foot relative to the diagonal stance. You are going straight into it/over top. Slide your front foot and weight over to the left more just before you plant.

Watch how much more diagonal his feet and weight move.

Thank you fellas! This stuff is finally finally finally starting to click. A rough journey to say the least (and still not over), but I am pretty happy with where I am at today compared to my first form videos back in May/June...

First form video:



Second form video:



SW, I think it was in SP's thread, but you had talked about your rear foot setting the diagonal stance, not the front leg/foot. Is that correct, or did I misinterpret what you're saying?

Once again, I cannot thank you all enough for your time/help. Forever grateful!

 

[sidewinder22]

SW, I think it was in SP's thread, but you had talked about your rear foot setting the diagonal stance, not the front leg/foot. Is that correct, or did I misinterpret what you're saying?

Correct. The rear foot position is what opens up the body out of the way for the whole backswing and forward swing! Huge "power pocket" or space to swing through your center.

 

[Jet57]

Morning,

My weekly indoor soccer facility practice time. Yes, I'm beating up an old/broke down Boss :\

While I obviously still have a lot of work to do, I feel like I am at a point where I want to work on an Xhop a bit. I'm still doing a ton of one step throws, but I think starting to incorporate some Xhop practice may allow for a few more light bulbs to go off. Thoughts?







I'm still not at a place where I feel like I can accurately see what I'm doing wrong, so feel free to shred these throws!

 

[slowplastic]

I like how your rear leg is moving now...knee forward and you can see the foot counter out a bit, then get pulled forward.

So there's a couple things I'm seeing. First the rear shoulder/arm looks like you really try to get it forward/through, but it looks like you're tensioning the shoulder or shoulder blade to move it in front of your body. If you do that two handed battering ram swing you should feel how the rear elbow wants to just move under your chin in front of your torso, even if your elbow is a couple inches from your hip so you can still use it on the ram. If you feel how it moves in space there then you won't have to force it hopefully.

Also you aren't moving diagonally, in the X-step from behind view you are striding directly away from the camera the entire time, and you release it on the same line or even to the left by a couple degrees...so an early release. If you want to throw directly away from the camera, the last step or two should carry you toward that green ball on the left more. This will let you turn back more easily, again like how opening your stance with the battering ram will feel, and hopefully give your rear arm/shoulder more room to swing through on the forward swing too.

 

[Jet57]

You're awesome SP, thank you!

Yeah, that rear arm is a funny thing. Seems I have almost the exact opposite problem from a lot of other people; where many leave the arm out, my natural tendency is to draw that rear arm in. RandyC made a similar observation a few days ago about my rear arm and looking a bit robotic.

I'll give the battering ram some more attention later this week, and really try to feel what it wants to do with my rear arm. Likewise with taking my x-step more diagonal on the final steps.

 

[slowplastic]

I'll give the battering ram some more attention later this week, and really try to feel what it wants to do with my rear arm. Likewise with taking my x-step more diagonal on the final steps.

Film this if you don't know that it's clicking. Different drills work for different people, but this one worked for me.

To me it felt like if I started parallel stance, the ram would arc behind me, so I'd just rock back and forth until at extension the end of it was swinging "straight". Ended up my back foot was way closed behind me. And naturally your rear arm will swing forward at the same pace as your front arm, since they are both attached to the same object.

But since we're right handed, and trying to equate this to a disc golf throw, the right arm is doing a lot of the pulling and the back arm is kind of along for the ride. Also for me having such a big object swinging constantly around me, it forced me to open up that pocket and have a lot of room.

Once you feel this, the diagonal angle should feel more natural since you can visualize how the ram releases "straight" in relation to your intended target even though you are set up offset. Then do that with a disc from standstill. Then you should just try to get to this same feeling from X-step and you'll naturally move right to left, hopefully without thinking too much about following an exact line.

The end goal to me is to do what feels natural because each good position leads to the next. So the throw should hopefully end up feeling simple, and when you look at it after you'll be in all of the talked about body positions.

 

[UhhNegative]

Just wanted to say, you've made a ton of progress in a short time.

Another thing that I see is that you aren't really getting turned into the rear hip in your backswing and that's causing you to get outside your posture. You are turning back, but I would guess you aren't feeling much tension in the rear hip/instep of rear foot.


From behind, this is as far as simon's rear leg turns back:

While your leg points a little further back:

And if we look from the side, we can see that if you don't keep the tension in the rear leg during the backswing you can end up outside your posture you are here:

Compared to Simon, again, and you can see his head is inside his rear foot and he's feeling tension in his rear hip. Because I'm lazy, imagine a line going from your rear foot straight up and compare that to Simon. Your head would be to the right of the line while Simon's would be to the left.

SW22 explaining it better than I ever could:

 

[slowplastic]

^Good pics, in the kick the can you should feel how your spine kind of tilts targetward on the backswing with the leg. Being on the hip and wanting to fall/move forward.

Those pics show you are turned back with a more neutral rear hip.

 

[Jet57]

Thank you UN! Always nice to get some positive reinforcement :clap:

You're absolutely right, in my xstep I don't feel near the tension (if any) that I do in my one step. In the video I could feel/see my posture and balance being "off" in the xstep, but couldn't put my finger on why. Along with Power of Posture, I think I will revisit the Door Frame Drill part 3 as well.

I don't have any crutches at the office, so I am giving a ladder a try. Easily in the top 3 of funniest things I've done at the office to try and improve my form

Hopefully you'll notice I began with an inline stance, then shuffle my feet into the diagonal stance. I certainly feel the power in the arc, opposed to a straight ram...but I'm not having the same revelation with my off/rear arm that SP and others have. Any insight?

 

[slowplastic]

I think filming this one is useful, as weird as it is.

Your head is kind of jutting forward as you extend the ladder, kind of a small over the top indication to me or folding over instead of braced and releasing/swinging the ladder.

Maybe try holding it from the top so you can do the underhand swing like Feldberg, I think it's easiest to feel the arc with gravity helping and extended arms so your elbows don't have to be perfect. Also maybe try doing it much smaller rocking initially and only on your front leg so that your head has to be balanced over the plant. Then extend farther and farther and let your rear leg land so you can go between feet, building up as it feels natural.

 

[UhhNegative]

Give yourself a little room so you don't put that ladder through the wall haha. That would probably be fun to explain to the boss. And you don't want to be trying to stop the momentum like you are having to do here so that you don't put it through the wall. You are using muscles to resist the swing which kind of goes against the point of the drill.

Honestly, I haven't even watched the SW22 battering ram video yet So maybe I have no idea what I'm talking about.

 

[sidewinder22]

Yeah more room from the wall and finish the swing upward.

 

[Jet57]

Afternoon fellas!

Quick update on how my form is progressing, and then I have some updated form videos to share. First, I've been having a blast throwing rounds with my buddies. I literally can stand on the tee pad and out drive all of them. My upshots have also been on point, so I have been nails for anything < 150'. Primarily throwing Teebirds and Escapes, as both of those feel really good in my hands.

At this point I would really like to start actively training my xstep/hop. Below are videos from today's practice session. Honestly, the majority of my xstep throws today all felt clunky, which I think is mostly a balance issue. Hopefully the more I work on it, the balance will start to come.

One thing I notice in all of these videos is that my hand is not on the outside of the disc as I come into the hit, but rather on the front of the disc. Can some one smarter than me identify the symptom causing my hand to be on the front of the disc? Is due to poor forward swing timing, my wrist....something else???

As always, any other feedback is welcomed and encouraged!

Sorry for the warehouse lights! If you're prone to seizures please refrain from watching!

 

[slowplastic]

Looks to me like you're coming down onto the front hip and to the inside of it/the hip is going right. And your chest or right pec area is what is getting braced/stopped by the front leg impact. Should feel more like landing on the right leg when walking...just not something you even think about, and the left shoulder should get "stopped" or balanced by the brace when it's working.

I would do the one leg drill setup and film it. If you're in the right position to start with then other things will look better. And once you've felt that ending balance it's easier to try to replicate from a different starting point.

 

[sidewinder22]

You are all disconnected, and swinging/releasing arm/disc downward. Should be swinging/releasing arm/disc upward with disc nose down.

Go all the way over the top in rhythm:

 

[Jet57]

Thank you fellas! The windmill drill with HUD was actually the drill that made "shifting from behind" click for me, so I will work on this drill again over lunch and see if I can feel a bit more connection between my body and arm.

Took some time last night at soccer practice to work on the one leg drill. Somewhere buried in BJ's thread, BJ had made the comment (and I'm paraphrasing), that he didn't think he was feeling what he was suppose to feel in the one leg drill. I think I am firmly in that camp; while I understand the idea is to be able to feel what it is like to be completely balanced on the lead leg, I am having difficulty translating this into my one step and/or my xstep throw.

See below for a couple one leg drill throws. As always, I appreciate the constructive feedback and breaking it down to me like the child that I am

 

[slowplastic]

Yes, no strobe lights on you!

The one leg throws will definitely help illuminate what's happening...I see the same things as in your standstill and X-step...it just looks less obvious because as the added momentum comes in these little things get amplified.

So first of all your pump timing is off. I see you are bending your leg/knee in unison with the disc coming down to the bottom of the pendulum. Your leg should be extending as the disc comes down, to pump and pull the disc through the arc. Try the elephant walk with a hammer so that you feel that the outer leg touches down in transition of the hammer at top of swing, and pumps/pulls the hammer down and then through the arc, accelerating it to the other side. Watch at 4:40 here: https://youtu.be/Y-KVWfUkQ3s?t=280

Your balance is not starting in the right place in the one leg. Your head and spine need to be translated targetward until they are directly above and in line with the plant leg. Things should then swivel more easily, and do not try to keep your head down, just let it move with your spine however it feels easy. To me the easiest way to get to the starting position is to stand on your lead leg, 100% vertical and balanced head over spine over leg. Straight up like a ruler but not locking any joints out. Then just bend at the waist slightly to bring your head forward 3-5" just slightly, so that nose is over toes but just from the waist bend. This is the starting point. If you turn slowly with your right arm extended, your torso and left leg should turn with you.

Also keep your left arm way more quiet. I think your poor balance in the starting position has you relying on your left arm too much for balance, so when you have a better starting point try to just let it stay in and counter when it needs to, rather than drive anything.

 

[sidewinder22]

Yeah balance is off and looks like your rear foot is still weighted.