One leg drill, stupid question.

[scooby snack]

In baseball the rotation happens before front foot plant. That was my point.

In dg, opening your hips before you plant would cause a loss of power.
The hips move laterally during weight shift, then rotation occurs on the brace.

 

[RoDeO]

In dg, opening your hips before you plant would cause a loss of power.
The hips move laterally during weight shift, then rotation occurs on the brace.

That's the discussion. Rotation actually is initiated and begins right before front foot plant.

 

[RoDeO]

Standstill is the basis of the throw. Many find they throw about 80% of their full distance from a standstill.



Do you still think the first move is rotational in nature, or linear? (not purely, but in terms of intent?)

It's linear and then rotational. It's initiated by the rear leg, just as in disc golf. The timing events just happen at different times in the two sports.

 

[scooby snack]

Rotation actually is initiated and begins right before front foot plant.

Nope, for backhand dg throws this results in decreased power. Linear movement is initiated at this time with the weight shift.

Explosive rotation of the hips isn't where the power to crush a drive comes from. The purpose of rotation is to relieve stress from your knee and shoulder.

It's linear and then rotational.

Linear and then rotational is correct.

 

[RoDeO]

Nope, for backhand dg throws this results in decreased power. Linear movement is initiated at this time with the weight shift.

Explosive rotation of the hips isn't where the power to crush a drive comes from. The purpose of rotation is to relieve stress from your knee and shoulder.



Linear and then rotational is correct.

Explosive chain reaction of the hips and torso which creates torque which creates rotation which propels the disc. The faster one can rotate their torso the greater distance potential they can throw. To argue otherwise means one is all arming the disc. Without the rotational torsion there is no power. One can be really slow in the linear motion but explosive in their torso rotation and have great distance. One cannot be fast in linear motion and slow in torso rotation and have great distance.

 

[sidewinder22]

Explosive chain reaction of the hips and torso which creates torque which creates rotation which propels the disc. The faster one can rotate their torso the greater distance potential they can throw. To argue otherwise means one is all arming the disc. Without the rotational torsion there is no power. One can be really slow in the linear motion but explosive in their torso rotation and have great distance. One cannot be fast in linear motion and slow in torso rotation and have great distance.

"Rotators are the ones leaving the most left on the table"...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIQjrxfIm_Q&t=2m55s

 

[scooby snack]

Explosive chain reaction of the hips and torso which creates torque which creates rotation which propels the disc. The faster one can rotate their torso the greater distance potential they can throw. To argue otherwise means one is all arming the disc. Without the rotational torsion there is no power. One can be really slow in the linear motion but explosive in their torso rotation and have great distance. One cannot be fast in linear motion and slow in torso rotation and have great distance.

Rotation is a by product of the throw. Your posts are indicative of not having a good brace. A correct brace will transfer all of the momentum from the weight shift into the disc, making rotation necessary.

It may seem to you that rotation is more powerful than linear movement, but it's not. Opening the hips before you plant, is a momentum killer.

Lateral hip movement/weight shift into a brace that stops your forward movement, equates to power.

 

[RoDeO]

Rotation is a by product of the throw. Your posts are indicative of not having a good brace. A correct brace will transfer all of the momentum from the weight shift into the disc, making rotation necessary.

It may seem to you that rotation is more powerful than linear movement, but it's not. Opening the hips before you plant, is a momentum killer.

Lateral hip movement/weight shift into a brace that stops your forward movement, equates to power.

You be got it backwards. The throw or acceleration of the disc into release is the product of rotation. That rotation absolutely begins with the rear leg and hip initiating right before foot contact and weight shift. That rotation then moves up the core and the torso is also rotated around powerfully. As you bring the disc into the body the spin increases just like ice skaters who bring their arms in increases their spin. That allows even more velocity to propel the disc. The actual moment of when the hips open varies from player to player. The most important aspect though is that it's the rotational torque of the torso that translates into throwing for distance. The legs and hips initiate that rotation and it happens before weight shift into brace.

 

[scooby snack]

You be got it backwards. The throw or acceleration of the disc into release is the product of rotation. That rotation absolutely begins with the rear leg and hip initiating right before foot contact and weight shift. That rotation then moves up the core and the torso is also rotated around powerfully. As you bring the disc into the body the spin increases just like ice skaters who bring their arms in increases their spin. That allows even more velocity to propel the disc. The actual moment of when the hips open varies from player to player. The most important aspect though is that it's the rotational torque of the torso that translates into throwing for distance. The legs and hips initiate that rotation and it happens before weight shift into brace.

Filed under advice to follow if you aren't seeking good backhand form.

 

[RandyC]

Explosive chain reaction of the hips and torso which creates torque which creates rotation which propels the disc. The faster one can rotate their torso the greater distance potential they can throw. To argue otherwise means one is all arming the disc. Without the rotational torsion there is no power. One can be really slow in the linear motion but explosive in their torso rotation and have great distance. One cannot be fast in linear motion and slow in torso rotation and have great distance.

So all along I should have spun the bow instead of loading the string, do´h its so obvious now. No wonder I suck at archery.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWxb4p-S-ig&t=239s

 

[RoDeO]

"Rotators are the ones leaving the most left on the table"...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIQjrxfIm_Q&t=2m55s

I wish I could have that 9:00 back. I've been to a lot of pitching clinics over the years and mostly they just like to talk. When all my son's friends were getting fancy pitching lessons by pros me and my son would just go out and throw, and throw, and throw. His sophomore year in high school he was the best varsity pitcher in his conference (about 20 high schools). The point being I guess is that while everyone else were getting fancy lessons and breaking mechanics down to the micro level my son was just throwing and doing it naturally.

When I go out and throw I methodically analyze in my mind every throw and what I felt and how the disc flew. When it feels right and the disc goes far and looks good I say" I'm gonna do that again". One of my favorite drills is getting my most overstable disc and trying to throw it for the longest flight before it hyzers out. My longest flight with that disc is 305 feet. I may be flying open, staying closed, etc, yeah, I'm trying different things all the time when something comes to my mind. But, inevitably, I always find myself returning to what feels good. Feeling my body rotate feels good. And now that my muscle groups are getting conditioned better, that rotation is more snappy and the release feels more powerful. I honestly don't feel a linear feel so much as I feel a slow coil up and then a slow to fast uncoil.

 

[RoDeO]

Filed under advice to follow if you aren't seeking good backhand form.

Well, you don't have to take my advice, it's a free world.

 

[sidewinder22]

I wish I could have that 9:00 back. I've been to a lot of pitching clinics over the years and mostly they just like to talk. When all my son's friends were getting fancy pitching lessons by pros me and my son would just go out and throw, and throw, and throw. His sophomore year in high school he was the best varsity pitcher in his conference (about 20 high schools). The point being I guess is that while everyone else were getting fancy lessons and breaking mechanics down to the micro level my son was just throwing and doing it naturally.

When I go out and throw I methodically analyze in my mind every throw and what I felt and how the disc flew. When it feels right and the disc goes far and looks good I say" I'm gonna do that again". One of my favorite drills is getting my most overstable disc and trying to throw it for the longest flight before it hyzers out. My longest flight with that disc is 305 feet. I may be flying open, staying closed, etc, yeah, I'm trying different things all the time when something comes to my mind. But, inevitably, I always find myself returning to what feels good. Feeling my body rotate feels good. And now that my muscle groups are getting conditioned better, that rotation is more snappy and the release feels more powerful. I honestly don't feel a linear feel so much as I feel a slow coil up and then a slow to fast uncoil.

So because digging it out in the dirt worked anecdotally for your son, it should theoretically work for everyone?

I used to do exactly what you are doing, however nothing felt good, led to injuries. I had to take the opposite approach.

 

[RoDeO]

So because digging it out in the dirt worked anecdotally for your son, it should theoretically work for everyone?

I used to do exactly what you are doing, however nothing felt good, led to injuries. I had to take the opposite approach.

As a blessing, I did everything wrong from my right side which led to injury. My experience with baseball as a coach led me to try LHBH and I equated it naturally to a baseball swing. It just felt natural. With a baseball swing its all about loading up, cocking the hip and then powerfully rotating that hip and bracing and pulling the arms through or having them pulled through by torso rotation. The key for my learning was the knowledge of how the rear hip works to initiate rotation. This video explains it really well.
https://youtu.be/dkYc0PKDmMI
If you watch disc golf pros in slow motion you can see the same exact hip flexor and glutimus muscles begin that powerful rotation, just like a baseball swing. I believe that's why I picked up on it so quickly and made substantial distance gains right off.

 

[wolfhaley]

Somebody's opinions in this thread have the smell of a rodeo.

 

[timothy42b]

So because digging it out in the dirt worked anecdotally for your son, it should theoretically work for everyone?

I used to do exactly what you are doing, however nothing felt good, led to injuries. I had to take the opposite approach.

We have this argument continually on the music forums.

Most of the best world class performers are naturals. They don't know mechanics at a level of detail, and what they think they do is often not what really happens. They teach the way they learned, sort of an "inner tennis" approach, and their students who are also naturals do brilliantly.

And I believe some of us are neurologically hard wired to not learn that way. We have to dig into mechanics and technique at detailed level to improve. I didn't make any progress at playing trombone until I found a teacher who taught with that approach.

Bertholy (Golf Swing Construction 101) believed that children should all be taught as naturals but adults lose the ability to learn that way.

 

[RowingBoats]

I wish I could have that 9:00 back. I've been to a lot of pitching clinics over the years and mostly they just like to talk. When all my son's friends were getting fancy pitching lessons by pros me and my son would just go out and throw, and throw, and throw. His sophomore year in high school he was the best varsity pitcher in his conference (about 20 high schools). The point being I guess is that while everyone else were getting fancy lessons and breaking mechanics down to the micro level my son was just throwing and doing it naturally.

When I go out and throw I methodically analyze in my mind every throw and what I felt and how the disc flew. When it feels right and the disc goes far and looks good I say" I'm gonna do that again". One of my favorite drills is getting my most overstable disc and trying to throw it for the longest flight before it hyzers out. My longest flight with that disc is 305 feet. I may be flying open, staying closed, etc, yeah, I'm trying different things all the time when something comes to my mind. But, inevitably, I always find myself returning to what feels good. Feeling my body rotate feels good. And now that my muscle groups are getting conditioned better, that rotation is more snappy and the release feels more powerful. I honestly don't feel a linear feel so much as I feel a slow coil up and then a slow to fast uncoil.

No one is arguing with you about the concept of becoming mediocre using the strategy you describe. No one will doubt that your son became a mediocre pitcher in the same way. Where is your son's pitching career now? Where are the kids' careers who studied and listened to proven professional methods?

What are you even trying to convey here? That you have the freedom to throw your own way? Everyone agrees with this. Nothing you say ever lends any credibility to you having the best method of throwing or learning or even conceptualizing this process mentally though.

 

[RoDeO]

No one is arguing with you about the concept of becoming mediocre using the strategy you describe. No one will doubt that your son became a mediocre pitcher in the same way. Where is your son's pitching career now? Where are the kids' careers who studied and listened to proven professional methods?

What are you even trying to convey here? That you have the freedom to throw your own way? Everyone agrees with this. Nothing you say ever lends any credibility to you having the best method of throwing or learning or even conceptualizing this process mentally though.

I'm not even willing to discuss with you calling my son a mediocre pitcher. Good day.
You have no idea.

 

[RocHucker]

Guys, no need to make personal attacks against Rodeo. He has shared his own feelings on the throw, and that following those feelings is allowing him to max distance at somewhere south of 400ft. If he's happy with that, that's fine. Let's keep it civil.

Personally I'm hoping to reach the 450ft+ that I'm pretty confident that my body is physically capable of right now if I were to have better technique, which is why I'm soliciting advice from people who have technique that gets them there (and beyond). There has been some solid discussion in this thread about ways to try to get there, and hopefully some of it will trigger an "aha" moment for me.

As always, I appreciate the knowledgeable and freely given advice from those who are throwing further than me (special shoutout to the sheer volume of content that crushers like SW22 and HUB create on here), and even the discussion from those who aren't necessarily crushers but whose posts might be inspiring those in the know to communicate in a slightly new way that might trigger a greater understanding for me.

 

[sidewinder22]

It's sad to me to see people try to compare golf swing mechanics to disc golf throw mechanics. They are similar in some respects but totally different where it matters. The way in which the hips rotate or clear is different for a golf swing versus a disc release. They are on two totally different planes and axis. Up to down is different than side to side. The way in which the hips rotate or clear is different mechanics for each. So is the footing, the step or stance, the backswing, the follow through, etc. Even the brace is different. It's also why being good with a golf swing for distance doesn't translate to being good with a disc release for distance.

Milo was former baseball player turned golf instructor and smasher and would disagree with you. Athletic motion is basically all the same, just tasked to using different tools.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wVTSrjkFm4&t=1m30s