[Question] Firebirds Illegal!

[mattc]

I don't understand why you guys think the OP
didn't do the test correctly on purpose, or is trying to fool you
What does the OP have to gain?

 

[Jay Dub]

I don't understand why you guys think the OP
didn't do the test correctly on purpose, or is trying to fool you
What does the OP have to gain?

It's real easy to show the test was done per standards.

You're asking the wrong question.

 

[pablo.diablo]

the real question is...when is the last time any of you guys played a game of wiffle ball? anyone up for a game of wiffle ball?

 

[mattw]

I don't like double standards. I don't care of you trust me or not.

The only way it would be a double standard is if the PDGA performed the test on Firebirds and ignored the results if the test came back with a failed result. Since you only used one disc and have never performed these tests before its hard to accept the results.


This has been posted a couple of times already.

"Discs must...have a flexibility rating no greater than 27 lb. (12.25 kg)...Flexibility - The disc is held on its edge in a vertical position perpendicular to a scale with a precision of at least 2 oz. (56.7 g). The upper rim of the disc is then gradually pressed down within 5 seconds. The flexibility rating is determined at one of two points, depending on how the disc reacts to applied pressure. For discs that buckle, the flexibility rating corresponds to the point when the maximum weight is registered on the scale. For discs that do not buckle, the rating refers to the weight at the point when the inside rim-to-rim distance is at 50 percent of the disc's diameter. The temperature of the disc is to be no higher than 25 degrees Celsius (77 F) when the test is performed. The ratings of three samples are determined, and the median score is used as the final rating. Discs that are unable to be bent to 50% of their diameters fail the flexibility test. Manufacturers are required to send samples of the most rigid discs they want considered for PDGA approval."

 

[jrawk]

Kill the flex rule!!!

 

[666BEAST666]

Let the butthurt flow freely....

 

[notroman]

The only way it would be a double standard is if the PDGA performed the test on Firebirds and ignored the results if the test came back with a failed result. Since you only used one disc and have never performed these tests before its hard to accept the results.


This has been posted a couple of times already.

"Discs must...have a flexibility rating no greater than 27 lb. (12.25 kg)...Flexibility - The disc is held on its edge in a vertical position perpendicular to a scale with a precision of at least 2 oz. (56.7 g). The upper rim of the disc is then gradually pressed down within 5 seconds. The flexibility rating is determined at one of two points, depending on how the disc reacts to applied pressure. For discs that buckle, the flexibility rating corresponds to the point when the maximum weight is registered on the scale. For discs that do not buckle, the rating refers to the weight at the point when the inside rim-to-rim distance is at 50 percent of the disc's diameter. The temperature of the disc is to be no higher than 25 degrees Celsius (77 F) when the test is performed. The ratings of three samples are determined, and the median score is used as the final rating. Discs that are unable to be bent to 50% of their diameters fail the flexibility test. Manufacturers are required to send samples of the most rigid discs they want considered for PDGA approval."

When IDGC Super chimed in on the G9i Wizards being rejected because they were spot tested and found to be too stiffed, several people mentioned that the Firebird would surely fail a spot test as well. IDGC Super said that the new opaque stiff Firebirds were in fact spot tested and while being stiff, they passed the test. This is why THIS thread was born. This isn't even one of the newer run stiff Firebirds and it doesn't even come close to the 27lb limit. Do you really think that he just had a freak stiff old run Firebird laying around that is way stiffer than the current opaque stiff run?

 

[The Hammer]

OP seems to have too much time on his hands.

 

[tbird888]

Do you really think that he just had a freak stiff old run Firebird laying around that is way stiffer than the current opaque stiff run?

That is beat up pretty bad and probably much softer than when new.

 

[BionicRib]

Did your disc retain it's correct, un-taco-ed state after your test? If not, then I believe this is 100% an issue with manufacturing, and anything stamped "approved" by the manufacturer is legal for use.

If you can't test my "approved" disc without damaging it, then that is an impossible test to perform. Even if the disc is legal, by testing you will ruin the disc. That's not an acceptable test.

I agree with this. I was messing around with some of my older stiff 12x/11x rocs and some of them felt like they were going to snap in half when bent. Also I'm not sure if anyone brought this up already (Im sure someone did) But how is this test going to happen outside at a tourney when its not 77degrees or above out? This whole thing is pretty stupid and if it starts to get out of control (ie if a bunch of discs are added) Two things should happen. 1. I should be able to trade my now illegal disc that was originally stamped legal with the manufacturer. 2 The PDGA can cover my expenses of having to get "legal plastic".

This whole thing reminds of the FBI warning on vhs tapes to not be copied back in the day. Everybody was breaking the law (or atleast almost everybody)......Some people knew what they were doing was illegal, but didn't care and others didn't even know what they were doing was illegal. Either way, there was no way to police it; therefore, nobody ever got in trouble.

 

[mattw]

When IDGC Super chimed in on the G9i Wizards being rejected because they were spot tested and found to be too stiffed, several people mentioned that the Firebird would surely fail a spot test as well. IDGC Super said that the new opaque stiff Firebirds were in fact spot tested and while being stiff, they passed the test. This is why THIS thread was born. This isn't even one of the newer run stiff Firebirds and it doesn't even come close to the 27lb limit. Do you really think that he just had a freak stiff old run Firebird laying around that is way stiffer than the current opaque stiff run?

I am not saying that. What I am saying is that the test was not performed to spec which makes the results invalid. I am sure everyone has discs from companies that probably wouldnt pass the test. But unless that test is done in the way it is listed by the PDGA the results dont count.

 

[ian.]

the real question is...when is the last time any of you guys played a game of wiffle ball? anyone up for a game of wiffle ball?

im all about the wiffle.. got some crazy pitching skills son

 

[Ted Bratton]

I know the PDGA said that they attempted to remove the rule and the overwhelming majority wanted to keep it, but WHY lol? I personally don't putt with wizards and I don't like the feel of mediums, but making this law because of how dangerous disc golf can be is silly. Of course it is dangerous, but not as dangerous as ball golf. In ball golf the ball is tiny and rock hard, and they hit it with so much leverage from their club that the ball could kill someone. Look at how close the spectators stand to the shots in ball golf, a small slice would rip some fan a new one. In disc golf some of the discs are stiff and some of them are very sharp, but this is a horrendous attempt to try to govern that. The rule should simply be removed, and the danger should be accepted...it is clearly an integral part of the game.

 

[jdw80550]

You can't kill the firebird
The firebird will live on

discdoh tried to destroy the firebird
But firebird was much too strong
Techno tried to defile the firebird
But techno was proven wrong

Firebird!
It comes from hell

:clap:

 

[Jay Dub]

I know the PDGA said that they attempted to remove the rule and the overwhelming majority wanted to keep it, but WHY lol? I personally don't putt with wizards and I don't like the feel of mediums, but making this law because of how dangerous disc golf can be is silly. Of course it is dangerous, but not as dangerous as ball golf. In ball golf the ball is tiny and rock hard, and they hit it with so much leverage from their club that the ball could kill someone. Look at how close the spectators stand to the shots in ball golf, a small slice would rip some fan a new one. In disc golf some of the discs are stiff and some of them are very sharp, but this is a horrendous attempt to try to govern that. The rule should simply be removed, and the danger should be accepted...it is clearly an integral part of the game.

It's today's "I'll sue someone if anything happens to me" mentality that make rules like this necessary. If someone were to be injured by one of these discs and then sees "PDGA Approved" on the disc, you can bet their lawyer will make sure the PDGA is included in the lawsuit. At that time the PDGA can say they addressed the problem.

 

[The Hammer]

I know the PDGA said that they attempted to remove the rule and the overwhelming majority wanted to keep it, but WHY lol? I personally don't putt with wizards and I don't like the feel of mediums, but making this law because of how dangerous disc golf can be is silly. Of course it is dangerous, but not as dangerous as ball golf. In ball golf the ball is tiny and rock hard, and they hit it with so much leverage from their club that the ball could kill someone. Look at how close the spectators stand to the shots in ball golf, a small slice would rip some fan a new one. In disc golf some of the discs are stiff and some of them are very sharp, but this is a horrendous attempt to try to govern that. The rule should simply be removed, and the danger should be accepted...it is clearly an integral part of the game.

I got smashed in the back of the head with a golf ball once. About 20 yards out off my father's 3 iron. He has a mean swing, too. Knocked me out cold, as my cart coasted to a stop in the middle of a fairway. I don't remember much of anything from that entire day.

 

[joe_kool315]

Ball golf isn't typically played intertwining in public parks with walking paths and pedestrians that have no clue what you're doing stumbling around unaware. Comparing Pro golfers on TV to the casual golfer is NOT even a good comparison. A pro golfer might shank or spray 4 shots a year ... maybe ... at their absolute worst and still come nowhere near a spectator near the tee-box (down range is a different story) BUT every spectator on a course knows and has accepted the possibility of being hit by a ball. Public park ... pedestrians knowing what this "frisbee" is for or what we're doing out there, good luck, and the pedestrians have definately not accepted any risk from flying objects in a park.

 

[ManU]

does it matter if it is disc A from company B versus disc X from company Y???

if the PDGA has a rule and wishes to enforce it against company A it should be enforced against company Y

anyone saying this "field" test is invalid because there is no evidence of the standardization used needs to be really honest with themselves

the AO Glow Firebirds that came out about a year ago were so hard and stiff there is no way they would pass the test

people are calling the example here invalid
how do you know the one done to call out the Wizards was valid?

cause the PDGA said so?
they also said the FBs passed

that doesn't look likely

it is also quite likely that there are a lot that wouldn't pass


now where's Chuck and Peter?

someone post this in Ask Shrive thread and see what the PDGA really has to say about it

 

[Mongo97]

OP, you got other discs you want to test out? It'd be interesting to see what would pass, even in your "OMG YOU'RE NOT DOING IT RIGHT!!!1!" tests that have people freaking out.

Really, this rule as written is ridiculous. Per the rule, in a tourney you could challenge the flexibility of a person's whole bag, and if the TD isn't able to test the discs, the person can't use them until they're tested. Imagine someone calling out all of a Pro's discs in a tourney, said pro runs of out plastic to throw and has to sit it out because the TD's not going to be able to test them out during the round.

Also, it's a pretty safe bet that a majority of discs would fail this test as written. Also ridiculous.

Instead of trying to hide your stashes of plastic out of fear that they'll all be dubbed illegal, what really needs to happen is the rule needs to be reviewed and revised.

The disc manufactures as a whole are greater than the PDGA. If the PDGA's rule says that all of your plastic is illegal, you'd be more likely to see a new 'governing body' than to see all of the manufactures giving up because most of their production runs are 'illegal'.

 

[spikodelhyzer]

I got smashed in the back of the head with a golf ball once. About 20 yards out off my father's 3 iron. He has a mean swing, too. Knocked me out cold, as my cart coasted to a stop in the middle of a fairway. I don't remember much of anything from that entire day.

This story explains so much.