2018 Texas States

[robdeforge]

https://youtu.be/N44tliIqxnU?t=792

"look at you taking your time, all sexy pants, what're you doin' over there?...yeah you look really good doin' that."

i'd put up with avery doing solo commentary every single day of the week over this kinda stuff. when brad talked about actual golf i liked him, but man just wayyyyy too much awkwardness

 

[frasnow]

I thought the commentary from Paul and Bradley was just alright. My only complaint is their somewhat monotone voices put me to sleep faster than the soothing sounds of David Attenborough.

 

[lyleoross]

Paul U - "wth....and people think I foot fault."

I had seen these and decided to not comment.

I wonder if we should change the rule from release, to committed to the throw or begun the throwing motion?

It seems to me that players begin their motion when they begin the step. The problem is that a step takes less time than the throwing motion, hypothesis on my part. That means you're going to get foot faults. If you change the rule, they go away, but you get the player who waits till the last instance before lifting his putt. That seems an easier call to make?

 

[DiscFifty]

I had seen these and decided to not comment.

I wonder if we should change the rule from release, to committed to the throw or begun the throwing motion?

It seems to me that players begin their motion when they begin the step. The problem is that a step takes less time than the throwing motion, hypothesis on my part. That means you're going to get foot faults. If you change the rule, they go away, but you get the player who waits till the last instance before lifting his putt. That seems an easier call to make?

I think the easiest rule change would just be: "Both feet regardless if on the ground or in the air, must be behind your marker at the time the disc is released." So much easier to understand and visually "make the call" if needed.

 

[robdeforge]

I had seen these and decided to not comment.

I wonder if we should change the rule from release, to committed to the throw or begun the throwing motion?

It seems to me that players begin their motion when they begin the step. The problem is that a step takes less time than the throwing motion, hypothesis on my part. That means you're going to get foot faults. If you change the rule, they go away, but you get the player who waits till the last instance before lifting his putt. That seems an easier call to make?

change what rule? i'm just not following! i'm all for eliminating shady jump/step putts but haven't figured out a decent solution yet

 

[frasnow]

I think the easiest rule change would just be: "Both feet regardless if on the ground or in the air, must be behind your marker at the time the disc is released." So much easier to understand and visually "make the call" if needed.

Perfect rule definition to eliminate step putts, but why are they more egregious than jump putts? There have been many cases where early-jump jump putts weren't called, and video evidence showed they were foot faults. I really see the step putts as more of a style of jump putt, so we really shouldn't have a rule that eliminates one and not the other.

Examples of jump putts with both feet behind the marker.

 

[lyleoross]

change what rule? i'm just not following! i'm all for eliminating shady jump/step putts but haven't figured out a decent solution yet

Sorry the rule states, iirc, that your placement foot must be behind your marker upon release of the disc.

Fundamentally, I agree with those who state that both feet should be on the ground, see above. But there are many who love certain things, like step putts.

 

[lyleoross]

Perfect rule definition to eliminate step putts, but why are they more egregious than jump putts? There have been many cases where early-jump jump putts weren't called, and video evidence showed they were foot faults. I really see the step putts as more of a style of jump putt, so we really shouldn't have a rule that eliminates one and not the other.

Examples of jump putts with both feet behind the marker.

How would you accomplish what you're suggesting. Everything I come up with disallows moving beyond your marker and that leads down the stand and deliver path.

 

[brutalbrutus]

...well what do you know... DGCR is trying to come up with another solution to another problem that doesn't exist. There is no problem with the current rule. Like every other argument we have in this forum, its about making people call them.

 

[frasnow]

How would you accomplish what you're suggesting. Everything I come up with disallows moving beyond your marker and that leads down the stand and deliver path.

I don't have a solution to eliminating jump putts. A rule to eliminate step putts is not right without a rule to eliminate jump putts. Stand and deliver would stink.

 

[SD86]

I think the easiest rule change would just be: "Both feet regardless if on the ground or in the air, must be behind your marker at the time the disc is released." So much easier to understand and visually "make the call" if needed.

This was my suggestion. And beyond jump putting: I remember not too long ago when Big Jerm set up with one foot ahead of the marker disc, said "I'm going to lift my foot when I throw", and did so. Legal under current rules, but I felt like that was abusing a loophole in the rules, and that loophole needs to be closed.

The above-suggested rule change would close that loophole as well as take any doubt out of step-putting foot faults... step-putting as Feldberg and Uli do it would become a violation of the rules.

And jump putting would still be legal, as long as the disc is released while one's feet are behind the marker. I'm less worried about that than about the constant abuse of the rules by Feldberg, Uli, et. al., and them not being called out.

 

[brutalbrutus]

I'm less worried about that than about the constant abuse of the rules by Feldberg, Uli, et. al., and them not being called out.

Ding ding ding...

 

[F.Luke]

Should legal jump and step putts be eliminated to prevent the uncalled illegal ones?

I say no.

The problem is enforcing them with any effect. I called a foot fault in a B tier last fall. The player questioned my call (just a warning and rethrow then). Third player on the card backs up my call, though unnecessary and the called player continues arguing, now much more belligerent. I gave up, said "fine, dude," mentally marked him as a cheat and moved on.




Sooooo.....
Texas States?
I'm guessing the foot faulter won?

 

[BrotherDave]

It was nice to see DGCR's own poster from yesteryear, Scoot_er represent on the lead card in the final round. Mr. Matt Hall everybody.

 

[robdeforge]

...well what do you know... DGCR is trying to come up with another solution to another problem that doesn't exist. There is no problem with the current rule. Like every other argument we have in this forum, its about making people call them.

no, the problem is that in real time you can't make the call. lots of step putts AND jump putts are legal. I would even guess the majority of them are. but a not insignificant number of both kinds ARE stance violations, just too close to call without video evidence.

https://imgur.com/a/LrSQ6

if people want to say it's super nit picky to go through and frame by frame a video, I'd probably agree. but the only reason I did this is trevor himself came into a FB thread about it and said:

in the video right at thia point my left foot goes upwards right where you paused and the shadow makes it look like im touching the ground.

...

The "violation" youre talking about is from your perspective of the camera angle which was a little uphill, so i can see where you're thinking im touching the ground, truth is, im not. Watch in real time and you will see my foot go upwards

calling it is a problem, and the people that do it are clearly reallllllly defensive about it. this whole kinda shtick is 100% against the spirit of the game IMO

 

[BuiltTooLong]

https://youtu.be/N44tliIqxnU?t=792



i'd put up with avery doing solo commentary every single day of the week over this kinda stuff. when brad talked about actual golf i liked him, but man just wayyyyy too much awkwardness

That was his way of ribbing Uli for taking a really long time on a 10 footer

 

[brutalbrutus]

no, the problem is that in real time you can't make the call. lots of step putts AND jump putts are legal. I would even guess the majority of them are. but a not insignificant number of both kinds ARE stance violations, just too close to call without video evidence.

https://imgur.com/a/LrSQ6

if people want to say it's super nit picky to go through and frame by frame a video, I'd probably agree. but the only reason I did this is trevor himself came into a FB thread about it and said:



calling it is a problem, and the people that do it are clearly reallllllly defensive about it. this whole kinda shtick is 100% against the spirit of the game IMO

If its to close to call with the naked eye, the benefit of the doubt goes to the player...

 

[Zanguini]

Basketball rules... a normal shot outside the the circle is a three pointer.... a putt is a freethrow...

Three pointer, you must be set and take off behind the line on a three pointer if you are the basket counts as three regardless of when you land.

Freethrow you may take your stance from inside the semicircle as defined by the markings on the court you may run up or jump as long as you do not cross the freethrow line before the ball touches the rim or basket.

So to DG
Shots outside the circle... as long as you are set in the beginning behind your mark where you end up after your release is fine
Shots in the circle ... you can jump or step however you want so long as you hit behind your mark at the end of your motion with no parts ahead.

 

[Discette]

no, the problem is that in real time you can't make the call. lots of step putts AND jump putts are legal. I would even guess the majority of them are. but a not insignificant number of both kinds ARE stance violations, just too close to call without video evidence.

https://imgur.com/a/LrSQ6

if people want to say it's super nit picky to go through and frame by frame a video, I'd probably agree. but the only reason I did this is trevor himself came into a FB thread about it and said:

in the video right at thia point my left foot goes upwards right where you paused and the shadow makes it look like im touching the ground.

...

The "violation" youre talking about is from your perspective of the camera angle which was a little uphill, so i can see where you're thinking im touching the ground, truth is, im not. Watch in real time and you will see my foot go upwards

calling it is a problem, and the people that do it are clearly reallllllly defensive about it. this whole kinda shtick is 100% against the spirit of the game IMO

Whether or not front foot is on the ground, the back foot is NOT on ground and the putter is still in hand.

However, it is nearly impossible to see any of this in real time.

Step Putt players are using the fact we CAN'T be certain the putt is illegal at the time it happens to justify the legality of the Step Putt.

This seems like super twisted logic to me: If you can't prove I cheated, then I didn't cheat.

 

[JC17393]

This seems like super twisted logic to me: If you can't prove I cheated, then I didn't cheat.

As your screengrab proves, we can prove they cheated (or perhaps more charitably, made an illegal throw..."cheat" has a connotation of intent that may not be true). We just can't prove it with the naked eye in real time. I agree that it is kinda backwards that it must be proven that they're cheating rather than the onus being on them to make sure they're not. I know I've practiced my jump putt with an emphasis on making sure I don't leave the ground (or my lie) before I release the disc. Maybe I'm limiting myself by trying to be legal, but at least I'm trying to be legal.

There is a way to successfully jump or step putt within the rules. Seems most players do those things with more emphasis on success (making the putt) than being legal. No different, really, than efforts to hit one's lie legally on a fairway run-up. Most players are more concerned with executing the throw well than executing the throw legally. If they throw it well and it is legal, it's more of a happy accident than the result of their effort.