Paige Pierce #29190

[Horsman]

We're going to disagree, Nick. I don't think the sport will ever realize this kind of popularity. I mean, if you are saying there could be events in the future with 1200 spectators throughout the day, maybe....someday. If you are saying Worlds with 24,000 fans packing ball golf fairways, I just don't see the interest.

But how fun would it be to have 24,000 fans and the event just uses the fans as fake trees and ob lines that the players have to navigate.

 

[Emoney]

A triple mando made out of humans....

The "courtside seats" of disc golf.

 

[DatRedDude]

This is not a problem unique to disc golf venues. Golf venues struggle with similar problems. Here in Toledo we are hosting the Solheim Cup in Sept at Inverness Club which since 1984 has hosted the LPGA's Marathon Classic (formerly the Jamie Farr [sponsor name] Classic). The venue has also hosted four US Opens (most recently in the 70s) and two PGA Championships (most recently in the 90s).

The anticipated parking near the venue is insufficient for the Solheim Cup, and the city has spent millions installing 1.6 miles of sidewalks on both sides of the busy road between the University of Toledo and the Club in order to use a large UToledo parking lot as overflow parking for spectators.

Disc Golf Tour events should not be expected to move off of prime course properties just because parking next to the venue is insufficient for spectators.

I have been to PGA Majors and a Ryder Cup. At every event you park miles away and get bussed in, at the PGA championship(2014) in Louisville(valhalla) we parked at Churchill downs and they had busses going back and forth. 30 minute bus ride. The parks disc golf courses are in will never be able to handle PGA crowds, luckily they will never have to. Most frolfers see a highlight on sports center and wala your big time. I love seeing people think this is the next big thing when it will remain a niche sport.

 

[ballgolfconvert]

The fact still remains that so many of her complaints pointed towards the PDGA, should have been taken up with the local organizers.

Of course, that wouldn't have been received as well, because then she would be criticizing the efforts of hard working locals.

It's much easier to attack the faceless bogeyman that is the PDGA when stuff like this arises.

The PDGA of course has issues like any other non-profit organization (I can personally attest to that), but Paige's comments come across as clueless to the amount of effort that has gone into growing the women's side of the sport, outside of the realm of the FPO players.

Sure, the pro side definitely hooks the new players, but I'm not sure how much of an affect is has on actually bringing in first time players.

I would say that the efforts of local organizers and clubs working with and building relationships with local municipalities has had much more to do with the growth of the sport.

Those same relationships are probably why you saw three courses for this tournament.

Imagine working with a local city, that invested in a disc golf course based on your relationships, then you tell them a major is coming to town but you're not going to use their course.

This sport is built on the backs of local groups and volunteers, so stop acting like it's a top down model.

Never has been, never will be.

Exactly. Don't do the right thing because someone's feelings may be hurt.

And it needs to become a top down model for the tour player aspect of the sport. That's what I mean when I say disc golf is stuck in an old era. PDGA should be dictating to the local community and TD's what needs to be done. PGA Tour events are all basically staffed and run by locals as well, but they are directed by the PGA as to their responsibilities. In this case they should have scratched the 3rd course. They certainly had plenty of time to do so.

 

[Three Putt]

The need for volunteers will never go away- pretty sure that exists on the PGA Tour as well. The potential for multiple revenue streams to add up to something significant is definitely there however.

This is not a problem unique to disc golf venues. Golf venues struggle with similar problems. Here in Toledo we are hosting the Solheim Cup in Sept at Inverness Club which since 1984 has hosted the LPGA's Marathon Classic (formerly the Jamie Farr [sponsor name] Classic). The venue has also hosted four US Opens (most recently in the 70s) and two PGA Championships (most recently in the 90s).

The anticipated parking near the venue is insufficient for the Solheim Cup, and the city has spent millions installing 1.6 miles of sidewalks on both sides of the busy road between the University of Toledo and the Club in order to use a large UToledo parking lot as overflow parking for spectators.

Disc Golf Tour events should not be expected to move off of prime course properties just because parking next to the venue is insufficient for spectators.

I volunteered at the Western Open at Cog Hill in 2004 (yes to biscoe's point; if the PGA was using volunteers during Tigermania I don't see them going away in disc golf); we parked at a community college in Palos Hills and rode a shuttle in. My car was like 5 miles from the venue (yes to ChrisWoj's point; the answer isn't moving these events, the answer is lining up additional parking and running shuttles to and from the venue).

 

[ChrisWoj]

I volunteered at the Western Open at Cog Hill in 2004 (yes to biscoe's point; if the PGA was using volunteers during Tigermania I don't see them going away in disc golf); we parked at a community college in Palos Hills and rode a shuttle in. My car was like 5 miles from the venue (yes to ChrisWoj's point; the answer isn't moving these events, the answer is lining up additional parking and running shuttles to and from the venue).

Did you have to pay to volunteer? For the Solheim Cup here we need to pay a significant chunk of change to BE a volunteer. You get a swag bag and spectator access. You're basically paying for the pack and a discounted spectator access pass if you want to volunteer.

 

[R-Ogre]

5000 people on a golf course watching a DG major is a future I'm just not interested in.

Will he throw a forehand hyzer or a backhand hyzer on this hole? I just can't watch the suspense is killing me!

 

[Three Putt]

Exactly. Don't do the right thing because someone's feelings may be hurt.

And it needs to become a top down model for the tour player aspect of the sport. That's what I mean when I say disc golf is stuck in an old era. PDGA should be dictating to the local community and TD's what needs to be done. PGA Tour events are all basically staffed and run by locals as well, but they are directed by the PGA as to their responsibilities. In this case they should have scratched the 3rd course. They certainly had plenty of time to do so.

Comparing the pull and power the PGA has to what the PDGA has is laughable on every level.

 

[ru4por]

The need for volunteers will never go away- pretty sure that exists on the PGA Tour as well. The potential for multiple revenue streams to add up to something significant is definitely there however.

Absolutely. Mrs. ru4por and I "volunteered" for a Senior PGA Major for several years. We paid 150 bucks to volunteer. Got a nice polo and a volunteer pack of swag and coupons. Very nice swag and very nice coupons, but that is what PGA type corporate sponsorship allows.

There is no way I see, the different demographic of disc golfers, ponying up 150 buck to work their butts off....and yep, much of it was hard work. As and interesting side note, the players were SOOOO appreciative of your efforts. I did not run across one entitled jerk.

5000 people on a golf course watching a DG major is a future I'm just not interested in.

If we get to the point that we need to play all ball golf courses, to accommodate this, I am voting to plant smaller baskets and turn the game over to oldmanballcon.

 

[Three Putt]

Did you have to pay to volunteer? For the Solheim Cup here we need to pay a significant chunk of change to BE a volunteer. You get a swag bag and spectator access. You're basically paying for the pack and a discounted spectator access pass if you want to volunteer.

Yes, we had to pay to volunteer. :\ My boss paid my fee; he was huge into golf and we basically shut the Park District down for a day so we could say we saw Tiger Woods. We got board approval for it, there are public meeting notes someplace detailing this misadventure. Where I was all day I didn't see any professional golfers. I got a nice sunburn, though.

 

[Three Putt]

ponying up 150 buck to work their butts off....and yep, much of it was hard work.

I'm pretty sure when I die, 99% of the bags of ice I will have touched in my lifetime will have been from that one day. After a few hours, bags of ice get heavy. :|

 

[Three Putt]

5000 people on a golf course watching a DG major is a future I'm just not interested in.

I think it's something a lot of people never thought about. They wanted their little niche hobby to be a big mainstream sport with no real thought given to what that would mean.

 

[ru4por]

I think it's something a lot of people never thought about. They wanted their little niche hobby to be a big mainstream sport with no real thought given to what that would mean.

Packed courses, expensive P2P, no outside alcohol on the course, a park ranger tooling around enforcing pace of play, collared shirts and dress codes, struggling to get a tee time with the prevalence of leagues and tournaments....:thmbdown:

 

[Nick Pacific]

Disc Golf Tour events should not be expected to move off of prime course properties just because parking next to the venue is insufficient for spectators.

I'm not saying they should be expected to do that. I'm saying they're going to want to.

Spectator passes, say for the week at an event like Worlds, at a very conservative and affordable 20 bucks a pop could net 20 thousand dollars. That's if they sell 1000 total of them which seems very reasonable.

Those are conservative estimates. I can see them selling even more, at an even higher amount. How about a few dozen beer and drink tents? Food? Discs, equipment and apparel tents?

How about you sell special all inclusive passes that include food and drink tickets? Include discs and apparel? Maybe for 100 bucks you get a spectator pack that has ALL of that in it? You're talking about major revenue right there not even including sponsorship or advertising.

What if they sell 1000 spectator packs at 100 bucks a pop? What if they sell double that?

You think they're going to let all that money sit on the table because X course is so awesome and who cares if it only has parking and room for 200 hundred people and very little vending and food/drink/spectator space?

 

[ChrisWoj]

I'm not saying they should be expected to do that. I'm saying they're going to want to.

Spectator passes, say for the week at an event like Worlds, at a very conservative and affordable 20 bucks a pop could net 20 thousand dollars. That's if they sell 1000 total of them which seems very reasonable.

Those are conservative estimates. I can see them selling even more, at an even higher amount. How about a few dozen beer and drink tents? Food? Discs, equipment and apparel tents?

How about you sell special all inclusive passes that include food and drink tickets? Include discs and apparel? Maybe for 100 bucks you get a spectator pack that has ALL of that in it? You're talking about major revenue right there not even including sponsorship or advertising.

What if they sell 1000 spectator packs at 100 bucks a pop? What if they sell double that?

You think they're going to let all that money sit on the table because X course is so awesome and who cares if it only has parking and room for 200 hundred people and very little vending and food/drink/spectator space?

Room for spectators and amenities on the course is a different story from parking.

 

[Countchunkula]

While I can understand how some of the pros might prefer using just one course for a major, as a viewer I find it much less interesting. If things keep moving in that direction, you can count on me watching one round at most.

 

[R-Ogre]

While I can understand how some of the pros might prefer using just one course for a major, as a viewer I find it much less interesting. If things keep moving in that direction, you can count on me watching one round at most.

Especially on bolf courses. At least Dogwood you had the chance of an errant shot getting a kick to make each round different.

 

[Three Putt]

While I can understand how some of the pros might prefer using just one course for a major, as a viewer I find it much less interesting. If things keep moving in that direction, you can count on me watching one round at most.

It's the player vs spectator thing; amateur events will never go wholesale to the one course/one round format because amateurs WANT to play different courses and WANT to play more rounds. It's an experience/competition ratio; for amateur events you are providing an experience that has a competitive aspect.

Professionals you are providing competition. Period.

So as a spectator/viewer, if you carry over your player expectation of what you would want if you were playing you are not going to get the experience you want. They are not trying to provide you with an experience. They are providing competition and all you are supposed to do is watch. To that end, so long as the players are competing no one should care that you are watching them play the same hole for the third or fourth time.

It's the fact that the only people who watch disc golf are players and the expectations we have as players that complicate the issue. I don't generally watch pro disc golf videos, but what I have watched does not excite me and make me want to grab my bag and head for the course. It's generally long, open-ish courses that make me think "that doesn't look like fun at all." Since it doesn't excite me and make me want to grab my bag and head for the course, I don't watch. If I didn't already have that expectation of what a good day on a disc golf course looks like, it wouldn't be an issue.

 

[DanJon]

The need for volunteers will never go away- pretty sure that exists on the PGA Tour as well. The potential for multiple revenue streams to add up to something significant is definitely there however.

We have a major USGA tournament coming to my place of work and they need over a 1,000 volunteers.

 

[Countchunkula]

It's the player vs spectator thing; amateur events will never go wholesale to the one course/one round format because amateur WANT to play different courses and WANT to play more rounds. It's an experience/competition ratio; for amateur events you are providing an experience that has a competitive aspect.

Professionals you are providing competition. Period.

So as a spectator/viewer, if you carry over your player expectation of what you would want if you were playing you are not going to get the experience you want. They are not trying to provide you with an experience. They are providing competition and all you are supposed to do is watch. To that end, so long as the players are competing no one should care that you are watching them play the same hole for the third or fourth time.

It's the fact that the only people who watch disc golf are players and the expectations we have as players that complicate the issue. I don't generally watch pro disc golf videos, but what I have watched does not excite me and make me want to grab my bag and head for the course. It's generally long, open-ish courses that make me think "that doesn't look like fun at all." Since it doesn't excite me and make me want to grab my bag and head for the course, I don't watch. If I didn't already have that expectation of what a good day on a disc golf course looks like, it wouldn't be an issue.

For the most part, I'm onboard with everything that you are saying. Not so sure about the bolded part though. Professional sports have enough money coming in to pay the athletes because it is a form of entertainment that has demand. If you provide the perfect competitive environment, but the result is so unengaging that it drives away viewers in droves, the money will eventually dry up as well.

Professional sports is about $. $ comes directly or indirectly from fans/viewers. No fans=no pros. That's why pro disc golf has been more like semi-pro for most of its history. Just a bunch of people playing for each other's money.