2011 PDGA Pro World Championships: Monterey Bay, California

[Peot]

If the big dogs get precedence to register, how long should you wait for them to get their act together? How long do the lowly Ams hang in the balance waiting to see if they get to play? I like the idea of the previous year's winner having a reserved spot, but everyone else should have to register in a timely manner or risk being shut out.

How.... are we ever.....going to be a legitimate..... sport???????? Absolutely unreal. Emac has been out winning tournaments like he should instead of being on the interwebs. Let's just alienate his ass for being out playing golf instead of sitting on a computer. It makes our sport look even better to future sponsors.

How legitimate of competitors are the top pros that got shut out if they can't find time to register for the World Championships? How long does it take to register, 3 mins? If I was anyone of importance at Discraft I'd be a little disappointed in EMac that he didn't get registered in time. Maybe they should have done it for him...

I think the latter portion of the post indicates some of the disparity between a lot of sports and disc golf. If JHern's previous post is accurate, which I'm sure it is, registration can be difficult to balance, and similarly easy to forget. My overarching point though, is this: the major events are major events for a reason. It seems like there are two (big) reasons people play in these tournaments: the chance to win, and the chance to enjoy the experience of playing in the PDGA Worlds/USDGC/etc. But the former should absolutely take precedence over the latter in these cases. Guys who are rated highly have busted their asses to become great at this game not just because they love it, but because they have a fierce desire to compete and to win. This is where the disconnect is between my point of view and a couple of the other posters here; I empathize much more with the fierce competitor than the wide-eyed am who is in it for the experience.

 

[JHern]

...My overarching point though...

Yeah, we heard your point. What you haven't explained is how you'd run Worlds differently. Please, do be specific in your response.

 

[ferretdance03]

I'm sorry, if a fierce competitor can't take 3 minutes out of their time to register for the World Championships, they don't deserve to have a spot reserved for them.

 

[Peot]

It doesn't seem all that difficult to me to reserve spots for every golfer above X rating and then do it by first come first serve with a waitlist. I won't pretend to know how to run tournaments, but doesn't the Vibram Open do something tertiarily similar to this?

 

[ferretdance03]

Read this post again- they had two months to register. How long should they have? Like I said, if they can't take the time out of their fiercely busy competition schedule to register, they didn't really want to be there.

Whats with all the ma1 & ma2 players being allowed to play at pro worlds?? Pretty dumb too considering the defending champ has to wait because of local ams wanting to play.

That's a bunch of BS. The touring pros (including Emac) who got invites had a gold-plated invitation slot that was open for an entire 2 months. They knew way in advance of that that they would have it available, and when it would be available. So they sit on their asses. And they sit on their asses. We told them over and over and over again to get registered before it was opened to Ams. You have no idea the kind of shaking of trees that was done to get their attention. Snail mail. E-mail. Phone calls. Posting on FB walls. Bugging friends to bug them. You name it. There is no excuse for ignorance on this one.

Then some of them wait until AFTER registration opens up for Ams to try and jump in and totally clog up everything. Then complain that Ams are allowed in, and try to bully them back out so they can get in from way down the wait list. If they'd just have registered when they had their red carpet period open just for them, then there would be no Ams at all playing in 2011 Pro Worlds. And its very telling that they only started to complain about the Am registration period after registration opened for everybody and they were caught with their pants down. Some of these guys think they deserve more royal treatment than Kenny Climo, or Nate Doss, or Nikko Locastro, or Avery Jenkins, etc., etc., who all registered when it was time for them to register.

Seriously guys, if you don't know how bad some of these MPOs procrastinate with registration, hang around a while longer. Maybe TD a big tournament, they'll have you pulling your hair out and gouging out your eyes, and swearing that next time you're going to do advance registration only, and let PDGA handle it all online.

 

[geoblime]

It doesn't seem all that difficult to me to reserve spots for every golfer above X rating and then do it by first come first serve with a waitlist. I won't pretend to know how to run tournaments, but doesn't the Vibram Open do something tertiarily similar to this?

Whats with all the ma1 & ma2 players being allowed to play at pro worlds?? Pretty dumb too considering the defending champ has to wait because of local ams wanting to play.

How.... are we ever.....going to be a legitimate..... sport???????? Absolutely unreal. :shock: Emac has been out winning tournaments like he should instead of being on the interwebs. Let's just alienate his ass for being out playing golf instead of sitting on a computer. :lol: It makes our sport look even better to future sponsors. :roll: Not to mention the fact that the previous years winner should have a guaranteed spot the following year.

And we'll have the silver spoons waiting for all those Pros when they show up at the players meeting since they'll be guaranteed a spot. :roll: To me, it's not a matter of finding time or forgetting to reg., it's a matter of either just plain being lazy or a feeling of entitlement. They all got gold plated invites well before every one else, including Emac.
This is one of the top three tourneys for the YEAR and I for one think that if the defending champ can't make the time out of his "busy" schedule playing
"disc golf" for a living, then why should he be allowed to play. Ya know, I work 50hrs+ a week, have a family with kids, commute 45+ min. to work, bowl in a league, and I found the time to reg. I'm sure on one of those stressful nights after a "hard" weekend of golf Emac and the other pros traveling/competing with him could have found the time to register for the BIGGEST tourney of the year. Now I'm not attacking Emac as a person, I'm sure he's a great guy, but this bulls@#t mentality has been going on for almost as long as I've been playing. I can't tell you how many times I've either read about Pros scrambling to get into a sold out tourney or showing up the day of and getting the TD to have a ghost group or make groups of 5. If you want to play, make an effort--no reserved spots for anybody. It's open to all that want to play.

 

[JHern]

It doesn't seem all that difficult to me to reserve spots for every golfer above X rating and then do it by first come first serve with a waitlist. I won't pretend to know how to run tournaments, but doesn't the Vibram Open do something tertiarily similar to this?

Gee, that sounds exactly like what we did!

 

[JHern]

You guys won't believe what the volunteer package looks like now. I'm not allowed to say, although you might figure it out from looking at recent updates to our sponsors list. Some people have heard, and are asking if they can buy in as a volunteer, but not actually show up to volunteer. We will not be releasing the schwag to anyone who doesn't truly intend to volunteer. The value of the volunteer package is now almost $300, and climbing all the time.

Every manufacturer wants to get their product into the volunteer pack, these are the people they want to market their products to, which makes perfect sense. Just as the total payout for 2011 Worlds (well over $100K) is breaking records, it will also be the juiciest volunteer package in the history of disc golf.

 

[JHern]

We've mapped and measured the extra 9 holes to be included for Pro Worlds at Pinto Lake. You can check out the map here...

http://www.2011proworlds.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/Pinto_Lake1.gif

Also, we're releasing the map for Ryan Ranch in the 2011 Pro Worlds layout:

http://www.2011proworlds.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/Ryan_Ranch1.gif

 

[Apothecary]

neither of those pics appear to be working.

 

[JHern]

neither of those pics appear to be working.

Not sure why the link doesn't work for you. Works fine for me.

 

[Billym]

If the "World Series" came to your town and you could have the chance to bat even though you are not a Pro would you take it?

 

[Peot]

If the "World Series" came to your town and you could have the chance to bat even though you are not a Pro would you take it?

If the World Series came to your town, that means (probably) that your hometown team is playing. Would you want to diminish their probability of winning because you wanted a cool experience? (I guess you could do your home team a favor and bat for the other team)

You see my point, though. MLB and professional disc golf are utterly incomparable right now. Maybe in 20 years or something pro disc golf will have moved up in the sporting world, but by the time PDGA Worlds is "big time," Ams probably won't be allowed to play.

 

[Billym]

If the "World Series" came to your town and you could have the chance to bat even though you are not a Pro would you take it?

If the World Series came to your town, that means (probably) that your hometown team is playing. Would you want to diminish their probability of winning because you wanted a cool experience? (I guess you could do your home team a favor and bat for the other team)

You see my point, though. MLB and professional disc golf are utterly incomparable right now. Maybe in 20 years or something pro disc golf will have moved up in the sporting world, but by the time PDGA Worlds is "big time," Ams probably won't be allowed to play.

So your answer is no Huh? OK.

 

[Peot]

It's an asinine question to begin with. The way you've posed it isolates something I've already discussed (people's desire to play) and ignores all kinds of other factors. The other factors are what we've been discussing.

 

[Billym]

It's an asinine question to begin with. The way you've posed it isolates something I've already discussed (people's desire to play) and ignores all kinds of other factors. The other factors are what we've been discussing.

You realize when you use asinine you are basically calling me an ass. Classy use of volcabulary.

 

[Peot]

More like "assy" use of vocabulary, am I right?

 

[JHern]

...Maybe in 20 years or something pro disc golf will have moved up in the sporting world, but by the time PDGA Worlds is "big time," Ams probably won't be allowed to play.

That's where the sport is headed, but there are a few more hurdles to cross. Having a larger Pro field is one of them. But the biggest hurdle is, of course, cost. Travel for a big tournament like Worlds is expensive, which is the main reason why the tournament didn't sell out to Pros in the first day it opened for Pros only. Even for the best local deals on housing (free, if you know a local with couch space, but more likely $60/night minimum for one week...$420), if you're traveling from out East the airfare is at least $300, and if you want complete freedom of movement you'll need a rental car ($300 for a week), plus the registration and other tournament-related expenses (buy a few things at the flymart, go to the banquet, Chains the movie, doubles events, etc., you're up to another $600). Gas to get around between the courses ($100 minimum). As you can see, it gets up to $2K really quick, and probably higher for all the beer, fine food, and everything else you're going to indulge in while in Monterey Bay. For a playing field of 432, the cost for all the players is close to $1 million. In order to recoup this expense, you'll have to place around 6th-ish or better in open, 2nd-ish or better in other divisions.

So what we need is a big dollar tournament sponsor(s) to take it to the next level. They cover hotel, rental car, airfare, and registration fees for all invited players, rent all the venues, pay for banquets and other special events, etc.. They also kick in to build up the prize pool. But we have to raise $1 million+ in sponsorships to get there. I think it will happen, but right now we don't have any sponsors big enough to handle that kind of investment. We're still in the $100-$200K total combined sponsorship funds range, which only covers local expenses like permitting of venues, insurance, basic food, etc.. The local clubs are the ones typically raising all the money and labor for course improvements, which is itself an ample sum.

If you want to see the next level, just find the money.

 

[JHern]

All Worlds courses are set up in the 2011 Pro Worlds Configuration from now until after the tournament.* CSUMB has all 27 concrete tees in place. Now is a good time to come and preview all four courses.

*Exceptions: 1) Pinto Lake has an extra 8 holes that play through otherwise busy soccer fields, and won't be set up until just before Worlds. 2) DeLaveaga is short one basket...new baskets are going to be installed soon...for now, 17 is still closed, but we might be able to move 8A to 17 (8A and 26A are not being used for Worlds). 3) Hole 27 at CSUMB currently has no basket, one will be put in place very soon.